What would happen if the deaths and lives of the children of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York were switched? How different would be the situation with only Elizabeth, Edmund and Katherine living?
 
Trees - England
Henry VII, King of England (1457-1509) married a) Elizabeth of York (1466-1503) in 1486, b) Giovanna of Naples (b.1478) in 1505
  1. a) Arthur (1486-1488)
  2. a) Margaret (1489-1493)
  3. a) Henry (1491-1497)
  4. a) Elizabeth (b.1492) married James V, King of Scotland (b. 1496)* in 1510 with issue
  5. a) stillborn son (b.1494)
  6. a) Mary (1496-1497)
  7. a) miscarriage (1498)
  8. a) Edmund I, King of England (b.1499) married Eleanor of Austria (b.1498) in 1513
    1. Elizabeth (b. 1516) married Francis II, King of France (b. 1518)
    2. Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1519) married Isabella of Spain (b. 1522)
    3. Edward, Duke of York (b. 1520) married Anne Bourchier (b. 1517)
    4. Katherine (b. 1522) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1520)
    5. Edmund, Duke of Somerset (1523-1532)
    6. Eleanor (b. 1525) married James VI, King of Scotland (b. 1520)**
    7. Margaret (1526)
    8. Charles, Duke of Pembroke (1529-1532)
  9. a) Katherine (b.1503) married Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500) in 1518 with issue
  10. b) Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b.1507) married Margaret of Scotland (b.1505)* in 1522 with issue
  11. b) Francis, Duke of Richmond (1509-1520)
*children of James IV and Katherine of York
** son of James V and Elizabeth Tudor

Hnery VII’s remarriage to Giovanna of Naples and the names of their children were chosen by @FalconHonour as she was the one to propose this scenario
 
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Trees - Habsburg
Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (1459-1519) married a) Mary, Duchess of Burgundy (1457-1482) in 1477, b) Anne, Duchess of Brittany (1477-1514) in 1490 (ann 1492), c) Bianca Maria Sforza (1472-1510) in 1494, d) Anna of Bohemia and Hungary (b. 1503) in 1515
  1. a) Philip I, King of Castile (1478-1506) married Joanna I, Queen of Castile and Aragon(b. 1479) in 1496
    1. Eleanor (b. 1498) married Edmund I, King of England (b. 1499) in 1513 with issue
    2. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500) married Katherine of England (b. 1503) in 1518
      1. Philip II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1520) married Isabella, Duchess of Lorraine (b. 1522)
      2. Elizabeth (b. 1522) married William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1516)
      3. Eleanor (b. 1523) married Francis II, Duke of Milan (b. 1517)*
      4. Charles (1525-1531)
      5. Katherine (b. 1528) married Albert V, Duke of Bavaria (b. 1528)
      6. Maximilian (b. 1530) married Anna of Hungary (b. 1531)
      7. Mary (1531-1535)
      8. Margaret (b. 1533) married Manuel II, King of Portugal (b. 1531)
      9. Ernest (1534-1540)
    3. Isabella (b. 1501) married Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b. 1489) in 1515
      1. Isabella, Duchess of Lorraine (b. 1522) married Philip II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1520)
    4. Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1503) married Isabella of Portugal (b. 1503) in 1518
      1. John III, King of Spain (b. 1520) married Katherine of England (b. 1522)
      2. Isabella (b. 1522) married Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1519)
      3. Ferdinand (1523-1526)
      4. Maria (1525)
      5. Joanna (1527-1528)
      6. Catherine (1530)
      7. Beatrice (1531-1533)
      8. Alfonso (1533-1537)
      9. Anna (1535-1542)
    5. Mary (b. 1505) married Louis II, King of Hungary (1506-1526) in 1515 without issue
    6. Catherine (b. 1507) married John III, King of Portugal (b. 1502) in 1520
      1. Alfonso, Prince of Portugal (1524)
      2. Maria Manuela, Princess of Portugal (1526-1528)
      3. Isabel, Princess of Portugal (1528-1529)
      4. Beatriz, Princess of Portugal (1530)
      5. Manuel II, King of Portugal (b. 1531) married Margaret of Austria (b. 1533)
      6. Antonio (1535)
      7. Luis (1537-1539)
  2. a) Margaret (b. 1480) married a) Juan, Prince of Asturias and Girona (1478-1497) in 1497, b) Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (1480-1504) in 1501
    1. a) stillborn daughter (1498)
  3. a) Francis (1481)
  4. d) Eleanor (b. 1518) married Sigisgmund II, King of Poland (b. 1517)**
* son of Maximilian Sforza, Duke of Milan and Bona Sforza, Duchess of Bari​
** son of Sigismund I of Poland and Barbara Zápolya​
 
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Trees - Scotland
James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473) married Katherine of York (b. 1479) in 1494
  1. James V, King of Scotland (b. 1496) married Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492) in 1510
    1. James VI, King of Scotland (b. 1520) married Eleanor of England (b. 1525)
    2. other children
  2. Elizabeth (b. 1498) married Christian II, King of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (b. 1481) in 1512
    1. John II, King of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (b. 1514) married Hedwig of Poland (b. 1513)
    2. other children
  3. miscarriage (1500)
  4. Mary (1501-1503)
  5. stillborn son (1503)
  6. Margaret (b. 1505) married Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b. 1507) with issue
  7. Robert, Duke of Ross (1506)
  8. John, Duke of Ross (1508-1511)
  9. stillborn daughter (1510)
  10. Katherine (b. 1512) married Alexander, Duke of Albany (b. 1516)*
*ATL son of John of Albany and Anne de la Tour d’Auvergne, he is also Count of Auvergne, Boulogne and Lauragais as his aunt Madeleine died childless
 
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Trees - Poland and Hungary
Sigismund I, King of Poland (b. 1467) married Barbara Zápolya (b. 1495) in 1512
  1. Hedwig (b. 1513) married John II, King of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (b. 1514)
  2. Anna (1515-1522)
  3. Sigismund II, King of Poland (b. 1517) married Eleanor of Austria (b. 1518)

Vladislaus II, King of Bohemia and Hungary (1456-1516) married Anne of Foix-Candale (1484-1506) in 1502
  1. Anna (b. 1503) married a) Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (1459-1519) in 1515, b) John I Zápolya, King of Hungary(b. 1490) in 1527
    1. a) Eleanor of Austria (b. 1518) married Sigismund II, King of Poland (b. 1517)
    2. b) Stephen VI, King of Hungary (b. 1528) married ?
    3. b) Hedwig (1530-1538)
    4. b) Anna (b. 1531) married Maximilian of Austria (b. 1530)
    5. b) Elizabeth (b. 1532) married George Zápolya, Palatine of Hungary (b. 1531)*
    6. b) John (1535)
    7. b) Barbara (1538-1550)
    8. b) Magdalena (b. 1539) married Stephen Bathory, Voivode of Transylvania (b. 1533)
  2. Louis II, King of Bohemia and Hungary (1506-1526) married Mary of Austria (b. 1505) in 1515
* son of John Zápolya, Palatine of Hungary (ATL son of George Zápolya and Elizabeth Corvinus, born 1513)
 
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Deleted member 147978

Didn't a question like this just get posted or am I having a matrix moment?
I believe not really, but this thread was a byproduct of this thread:
 
James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473) married Katherine of York (b. 1479) in 1494
  1. James V, King of Scotland (b. 1496) married Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492) in 1510
    1. James VI, King of Scotland (b. 1520) married Eleanor of England (b. 1525)
    2. other children
  2. Elizabeth (b. 1498) married Christian II, King of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (b. 1481) in 1512
    1. John II, King of Denmark, Sweden and Norway (b. 1514) married Hedwig of Poland (b. 1513)
    2. other children
  3. miscarriage (1500)
  4. Mary (1501-1503)
  5. stillborn son (1503)
  6. Margaret (b. 1505) married Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b. 1507) with issue
  7. Robert, Duke of Ross (1506)
  8. John, Duke of Ross (1508-1511)
  9. stillborn daughter (1510)
  10. Katherine (b. 1512) married Alexander, Duke of Albany (b. 1516)*
*ATL son of John of Albany and Anne de la Tour d’Auvergne, he is also Count of Auvergne, Boulogne and Lauragais as his aunt Madeleine died childless
Why is he marrying Katherine of York? IOTL she was betrothed to his brother
 
Henry VII, King of England (1457-1509) married a) Elizabeth of York (1466-1503) in 1486, b) Giovanna of Naples (b.1478) in 1505
  1. a) Arthur (1486-1488)
  2. a) Margaret (1489-1493)
  3. a) Henry (1491-1497)
  4. a) Elizabeth (b.1492) married James V, King of Scotland (b. 1496)* in 1510 with issue
  5. a) stillborn son (b.1494)
  6. a) Mary (1496-1497)
  7. a) miscarriage (1498)
  8. a) Edmund I, King of England (b.1499) married Eleanor of Austria (b.1498) in 1513
    1. Elizabeth (b. 1516) married Francis II, King of France (b. 1518)
    2. Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1519) married Isabella of Spain (b. 1522)
    3. Edward, Duke of York (b. 1520) married Anne Bourchier (b. 1517)
    4. Katherine (b. 1522) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1520)
    5. Edmund, Duke of Somerset (1523-1532)
    6. Eleanor (b. 1525) married James VI, King of Scotland (b. 1520)**
    7. Margaret (1526)
    8. Charles, Duke of Pembroke (1529-1532)
  9. a) Katherine (b.1503) married Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500) in 1518 with issue
  10. b) Jasper, Duke of Bedford (b.1507) married Margaret of Scotland (b.1505)* in 1522 with issue
  11. b) Francis, Duke of Richmond (1509-1520)
*children of James IV and Katherine of York
** son of James V and Elizabeth Tudor

Hnery VII’s remarriage to Giovanna of Naples and the names of their children were chosen by @FalconHonour as she was the one to propose this scenario
Also who is the 1522 Isabella of Spain and why on earth is Eleanor marrying her cousin?
 
I believe not really, but this thread was a byproduct of this thread:
Wait so they're the same threads...?
 
Didn't a question like this just get posted or am I having a matrix moment?
I just got my own thread for my own version of the scenario, as I have plan to explore it (as usual we will see what will happen with that plans)…
 
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Why is he marrying Katherine of York? IOTL she was betrothed to his brother
Also who is the 1522 Isabella of Spain and why on earth is Eleanor marrying her cousin?
James is marrying Katherine of York because Henry VII when his daughter Margaret died offered his youngest sister-in-law, still unmarried as she had barely reached the age for marriage as replacement. As here Henry VII‘s idea of keeping Scotland friendly had taken roots, Scotland has three English Queen Consorts in a row (and the fact who they were first cousins do not mattered to anyone).

Isabella of Spain is the daughter of Ferdinand VI of Spain (Habsburg) and Isabella of Portugal as you can see from the Habsburg tree (who cover Austria-Burgundy, Lorraine, Spain and Portugal)
 
NOTES on the scenario
Switching the surviving kids of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York presented an interesting challenge, specially on the kid‘s matrimonial fates: well Edmund and Katherine‘s Burgundian weddings were pretty much guaranteed from the start, but Elizabeth was more complicated. In the end I settled for keeping Henry VII’s OTL matrimonial strategy towards Scotland with him offering first his sister-in-law Katherine of York as bride to James IV, after Margaret’s death deprived him of the chance of marrying James to his own daughter and then arranging a double match between his eldest daughter and James IV’s heir, luckily not much younger than her and together with one between his eldest son by his second marriage and a daughter of James and Katherine, for securing the precious Yorkist bloodline also for the line of his second heir.

With Eleanor‘s future in England guaranteed and Charles’ English match safe from the interferences of Ferdinand of Aragon (who here can not tell to his 14 years old grandson who he was saddled with an old English maid and a four years old girl will be a better bride, when the English girl is eleven years old instead of eighteen) and Mary’s Hungarian engagement guaranteed from the start, only Isabella’s fate remained uncertain and as Eleanor in OTL was offered as bride to the Duke of Lorraine (who has a small but strategical Duchy in the middle of the Burgundian lands) around 1510, I choose to have Maximilian and/or Margaret offering him Isabella, around the same date or a little earlier, with the match accepted (as Isabella was a little young, true, but was still a great match and he will not have better offers).

Without any chance to persuade Charles to accept Renee in place of Katherine, Ferdinand of Aragon would likely focus all his energies on getting his namesake grandson and ward as heir of Castile and Aragon in place of his older brother. Likely he will need to have Ferdinand of Austria named first named and sweared as Prince of Girona by the Cortes of Aragon for persuading the Cortes of Castile to follow their example and name and swear Ferdinand as Prince of the Asturias for not breaking the union between the two kingdoms. The engagement between Ferdinand jr and Renee will be settled aside by Francis I as soon he became King, meaning who a double match with Portugal (Ferdinand to Isabella together with John and Catherine, who was kept by Joanna) is the logical replacement as that would give more support to Ferdinand against any claim of Charles (as Manuel and Maria wanted their eldest daughter to be Queen, and more specifically to be Queen of Castile and Aragon).

Barbara Zápolya here will not die and instead will give a son to Sigismund, while Bona has already married her Milanese cousin while Anna of Bohemia and Hungary will marry Emperor Maximilian and give him a daughter.
After Louis‘ death the conflict for the crowns will be between Charles V and Janos Zapolya in Hungary (and here Janos will won the election and then marry the widowed Anna for consolidate his holding on the Crown and I guess between Charles and Sigismund in Bohemia (and I do not know who will win the latter’s election)
 
Charles V and Janos Zapolya in Hungary (and here Janos will won the election and then marry the widowed Anna for consolidate his holding on the Crown and I guess between Charles and Sigismund in Bohemia (and I do not know who will win the latter’s election)

Charles has claim to neither crown and I guess, if Bohemian estates were to truly free elect the monarch (IOTL they were held back by obligations towards Ferdinand derived from Congress of Vienna, ITTL they have no such obligations) they'd most likely choose Sigismund, as Zapolya was perceived as lowborn outside of Hungary (Sigismund had to invent lots of BS to be able to have Barbara crowned as Queen of Poland) and for Bohemians, Sigismund as a Pole would be a lot less foreign than Burgundian Charles.
 
Switching the surviving kids of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York presented an interesting challenge, specially on the kid‘s matrimonial fates: well Edmund and Katherine‘s Burgundian weddings were pretty much guaranteed from the start, but Elizabeth was more complicated. In the end I settled for keeping Henry VII’s OTL matrimonial strategy towards Scotland with him offering first his sister-in-law Katherine of York as bride to James IV, after Margaret’s death deprived him of the chance of marrying James to his own daughter and then arranging a double match between his eldest daughter and James IV’s heir, luckily not much younger than her and together with one between his eldest son by his second marriage and a daughter of James and Katherine, for securing the precious Yorkist bloodline also for the line of his second heir.

With Eleanor‘s future in England guaranteed and Charles’ English match safe from the interferences of Ferdinand of Aragon (who here can not tell to his 14 years old grandson who he was saddled with an old English maid and a four years old girl will be a better bride, when the English girl is eleven years old instead of eighteen) and Mary’s Hungarian engagement guaranteed from the start, only Isabella’s fate remained uncertain and as Eleanor in OTL was offered as bride to the Duke of Lorraine (who has a small but strategical Duchy in the middle of the Burgundian lands) around 1510, I choose to have Maximilian and/or Margaret offering him Isabella, around the same date or a little earlier, with the match accepted (as Isabella was a little young, true, but was still a great match and he will not have better offers).

Without any chance to persuade Charles to accept Renee in place of Katherine, Ferdinand of Aragon would likely focus all his energies on getting his namesake grandson and ward as heir of Castile and Aragon in place of his older brother. Likely he will need to have Ferdinand of Austria named first named and sweared as Prince of Girona by the Cortes of Aragon for persuading the Cortes of Castile to follow their example and name and swear Ferdinand as Prince of the Asturias for not breaking the union between the two kingdoms. The engagement between Ferdinand jr and Renee will be settled aside by Francis I as soon he became King, meaning who a double match with Portugal (Ferdinand to Isabella together with John and Catherine, who was kept by Joanna) is the logical replacement as that would give more support to Ferdinand against any claim of Charles (as Manuel and Maria wanted their eldest daughter to be Queen, and more specifically to be Queen of Castile and Aragon).

Barbara Zápolya here will not die and instead will give a son to Sigismund, while Bona has already married her Milanese cousin while Anna of Bohemia and Hungary will marry Emperor Maximilian and give him a daughter.
After Louis‘ death the conflict for the crowns will be between Charles V and Janos Zapolya in Hungary (and here Janos will won the election and then marry the widowed Anna for consolidate his holding on the Crown and I guess between Charles and Sigismund in Bohemia (and I do not know who will win the latter’s election)
Wasn't Barbara rendered infertile after the birth of her second daughter Anna...
 
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