Different Trans-Atlantic and Pan-European special relationships

An idle thought but what if instead of the UK-US special relationship and the Franco-German special relationship there were one or more of the following.

Britain and France

Britain and Germany

USA and France

USA and Germany
 

Susano

Banned
Well Faeelin thought of a US-German Special relationship in his Stresemann TL, but apaprently he has discarded the idea in favour of earlier European integration. It could work in any "No WW2" scenario, though: Both Weimar Germany and the USA are somewhat anti-colonialist (the one less, the other more so). Hence its possible that Germany estranges itself from a rest of Europe (GB, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands) that frantically tries to keep their respective Empires together - as decolonsiation and moves towards that will come no matter what. And such a Germany would probably end up with close relatopnships to the USA, which in turn will be estranged from the UK.

And considering the UK and France were the largest colonial powers, youd get both a Franco-British and an US-German special relationship.
 
Well Faeelin thought of a US-German Special relationship in his Stresemann TL, but apaprently he has discarded the idea in favour of earlier European integration. It could work in any "No WW2" scenario, though: Both Weimar Germany and the USA are somewhat anti-colonialist (the one less, the other more so). Hence its possible that Germany estranges itself from a rest of Europe (GB, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands) that frantically tries to keep their respective Empires together - as decolonsiation and moves towards that will come no matter what. And such a Germany would probably end up with close relatopnships to the USA, which in turn will be estranged from the UK.

And considering the UK and France were the largest colonial powers, youd get both a Franco-British and an US-German special relationship.

I should have specified this as "Post WW2", basically alternatives to the fairly close Franco/German and Anglo/American relationships of OTL.
 

Thande

Donor
The Anglo-French relationship is the most plausible to my mind; it was suggested several times over the years. De Gaulle is a major problem: maybe if the Algerian crisis is resolved without the formation of the Fifth Republic and he never becomes president?

A U.S.-German one is also conceivable, probably helped along if the US was (even more) dominant among the allied forces stationed in Germany, given the old cultural ties (I still find it bizarre that if you look through a list of WW2 generals, half of the ones with obviously German names seem to be American).
 
USA and France seems plausible (belated gratitude for France's assistance during the American War of Independence)

ALSO

UK and the Benelux countries - a counterweight to the German/French
 
(I still find it bizarre that if you look through a list of WW2 generals, half of the ones with obviously German names seem to be American).
OT, this weirds me out more with Imperial Russian officers back in the day. It's like, are you sure you didn't mean to say Prussian?
 

Deleted member 1487

Even today Germans are the single largest ethnic group in the US, so I would say that one is very doable. The only problem is that the reason that many left was to get away from wars and political or religious oppression, so maybe not a great way to start a special relationship.
 
A U.S.-German one is also conceivable, probably helped along if the US was (even more) dominant among the allied forces stationed in Germany, given the old cultural ties (I still find it bizarre that if you look through a list of WW2 generals, half of the ones with obviously German names seem to be American).

Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County-1396x955.png


That should help you wrap your mind around it.
 
Even today Germans are the single largest self-reported ethnic group in the US in 2000, so I would say that one is very doable. The only problem is that the reason that many left was to get away from wars and political or religious oppression, so maybe not a great way to start a special relationship.

Clarified that for you

Considering that the 1980 Census had ~50 million with reported English ancestry and the 2000 had only 23 million, and there wasn't a genocide during the Reagan years, the English are currently hugely under reported and probably the largest single group, and Britain as a whole is by far the largest contributor. Back in the earlier part of the 20th century the non-German ethnic identities were much more established, and someone saying "I'm of German ancestry so I support the German State" would have been met with suspicion - you only get a pass on that if the ethnic heritage in question are the underdogs.
 
I should have specified this as "Post WW2", basically alternatives to the fairly close Franco/German and Anglo/American relationships of OTL.

Perhaps an alternative outcome to the Suez Crisis. The UK and France go ahead in spite of US opposition. As a result, relations between the UK and the US become more strained while the UK and France build a new Entente Cordial. This is strengthened as both countries try and maintain their colonial empires - they might even end up being merged into a Franco-British Commonwealth. Meanwhile, the Cold War means that the US builds up a better relationship with Germany as the main plank of their European strategy. This relationship becomes known as D.A.F. - Deutsch-Amerikanische Freundschaft.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
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