Different Final solution

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Deleted member 1487

What if the Germans were able to work out a deal with the British to take Jewish refugees (yes it is inspired by the "no arab revolt in '36")? This might be incredibly ASB, but work with me here. Basically, instead of German, Czech, or Austrian Jews heading to the US or other nations, they are funneled in the Palestine instead? This isn't a whole lot of people, as German and Austrian Jewish populations were in the low hundreds of thousands, but I'm thinking this could make a difference to the whole concept of the "Final Solution".

Now the Axis wasted a lot of resources killing Jewish people, but what if instead it was decided that the best effort was then to smuggle them via French Syria or Turkey into the middle east, which, given the Arab reaction to increased European Jewish immigration, would distablized the British regime there. Again, I know, probably ASB considering the millions of people that would need to be shipped, but this could cause a massive problem to for the Allies to have to find something to do with this new group in their sphere of influence. I imagine that certain groups within the Zionist sphere would be overjoyed by this policy, but could or would they help the Nazis expel so many people?
 

Keenir

Banned
What if the Germans were able to work out a deal with the British to take Jewish refugees (yes it is inspired by the "no arab revolt in '36")? This might be incredibly ASB, but work with me here. Basically, instead of German, Czech, or Austrian Jews heading to the US or other nations, they are funneled in the Palestine instead? This isn't a whole lot of people, as German and Austrian Jewish populations were in the low hundreds of thousands,

Six Million, actually.

and that's just the ones who were actually killed.

Now the Axis wasted a lot of resources killing Jewish people, but what if instead it was decided that the best effort was then to smuggle them via French Syria or Turkey into the middle east,

smuggle??

why smuggle, when you've got perfectly fine-working train systems?

which, given the Arab reaction to increased European Jewish immigration, would distablized the British regime there.
I imagine that certain groups within the Zionist sphere would be overjoyed by this policy, but could or would they help the Nazis expel so many people?

oh the Stern Gang would have fits of joy at this prospect - I think the whole reason they supported Hitler was because Hitler was their best prospect of getting the Brits out of Israel (or what they felt should be Israel)
 

MrP

Banned
The SS IOTL had a policy of getting as many Jews to move out of the country as they could before the war. The British weren't going to allow this mass migration legally, because they knew it would further destabilise an already tricky situation, and so turned back as many shiploads of refugees from Palestinian waters as they could. I forget all the details, but if you can find a copy of Heinz Hohne's book on the SS, he covers this in some depth. It's a few years since I read it, so I fear I can't give you more than the above synopsis. It's quite an eye-opener about the (surprisingly winding) road to the Final Solution, and many other things about Nazi Germany and the SS.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Problems;

a) Hitler was crazy and Himmler just liked to kill people, no Jews, no people for Himmler to kill.
b) How would the Germans be able to smuggle Jews (that probably would not be very cooperative) to the Middle East????
 

MrP

Banned
Problems;

a) Hitler was crazy and Himmler just liked to kill people, no Jews, no people for Himmler to kill.
b) How would the Germans be able to smuggle Jews (that probably would not be very cooperative) to the Middle East????

Read my post directly above yours, which outlines (admittedly sketchily) that the SS did its evil best to turf out the Jews prior to the war and that Jews were smuggled into Palestine IOTL.
 
Problems;

a) Hitler was crazy and Himmler just liked to kill people, no Jews, no people for Himmler to kill.

You sure about that? Slavs, the Romani people, the disabled, homosexuals and dissidents amongst others the Nazi’s had lots of groups they would want to eliminate. Even if all the Jews could escape Nazi Germany you are still looking at a major death toll if the war goes as OTL.
 
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Bearcat

Banned
Also

He would undoubtedly still kill Jews outside the Reich as he overran Europe.

How exactly does he get the British to commit to a Jewish Palestine? Because regardless of anything else, so many Jewish refugees will tip the balance there. I can't see the Arab Palestinian populace just acquiescing to this.

You're still stuck with the central tragedy of the whole Palestinian issue. Two sides, both with legitimate claims and needs, want the same small piece of land. You can't resolve this with ANY POD in the 1930s. It sucks, but there it is.
 
Why smuggle and why Palestine? If the Nazis could move 6 million people to concentration camps for execution, they could move the same people on to ships bound for western Africa. So, the victims could have been deported to places that were not part of a claim dispute that goes back so many centuries.
 
Why smuggle and why Palestine? If the Nazis could move 6 million people to concentration camps for execution, they could move the same people on to ships bound for western Africa. So, the victims could have been deported to places that were not part of a claim dispute that goes back so many centuries.

Always wondered why all the jews couldnt go to some other place than Palestine myself.
Well if Hitler was a little less rascist and a bit more shrewd he could encourage the jews to not have children and to move to certain areas of the reich, i dont know maybe poland or Moravia or sumn. They were Germans after all and would help 'colonize' the areas. I dont know how any PoD could make Hitler do this though...

Jim
 

Bearcat

Banned
Aye Caramba

Always wondered why all the jews couldnt go to some other place than Palestine myself.

Well, for one, they weren't able to move so easily, for two they really didn't want to. And then there is the ancestral homeland issue.


Well if Hitler was a little less rascist and a bit more shrewd

Umm, yeah. If he wasn't a total monster and a wanker HE WOULDN'T BE HITLER.

Sheesh.

Honestly, there is no non-ASB way to make this work out with everyone happy. And even the ASBs would have their work cut out for them. (Second duplicate geographically identical Israel as an island in the Med? Gives each a homeland but will people argue about which one is 'real'? Hmmm, interesting notion though...)

I still think a historical divergence has to be way back, probably pre-1900. Zionism finds another acceptable homeland or else Palestine is so overwhelming Jewish in population Balfour gets implemented immediately. If the Jews leave Europe, Hitler has less of an issue to use, and all of history gets butterflied up the ying-yang anyway.
 
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