Different carrier at the Falklands

This is often repeated, but ignores two things. First, the conventional carriers could operate longer-range aircraft, allowing them to avoid poor weather. Second, the analysis is based on USN operating criteria; the RN has always been willing to operate in worse conditions than the USN.

The point is more that conventional carriers aren't a panacea when it comes to Operation Corporate. Yes there are advantages, but there are also trade-offs. Fewer, more complicated aircraft with more intensive maintenance requirements resulting in lower mission availability and sortie rates for example.

Given the size and nature of the theatre I'm not sure I agree with the range argument. There is also a tradeoff with time on station and combat persistence if you are flying from further away. As for weather, SHAR's were descending to land vertically in holes in sea fog, while Veinticinco de Mayo's strike was abandoned due to lack of wind in otherwise ideal conditions. It's not a "worse" thing, it's a flexibility thing, and that opinion was voiced by Royal Navy participants.
 
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I was using PC earlier - not note pad? Not sure what I did to get a double post?

So it did have radar! But from what I have been reading the Pilots had little faith in it during the South Atlantic Campaign and relied on the Ship borne radars to direct them in most cases. I wonder how it stacks up against an AN/AWG-11 as carried by the RNs F4 Phantoms?



Unless a existing project was already on the cards then I suspect that it would take at least a decade to get a carrier designed and built to replace the Ark and/or Eagle providing the Conservatives were up for it.

That means the first unit gets launched at or after the Berlin wall comes down (assuming OTL dates remain the same) and so it might get peace dividended out of existence?

That might be tactical so that Argentine aircraft didn't detect the Blue Fox radar emissions and know there were Harriers about. They would expect to pick up type 965 emissions anyways.
 
According to Sharkey Ward, CO 801 NAS, 801 had no problem with the Sea Harrier radar but 800 NAS did not. A Ferranti rep joined the Task Force to tune the Blue Fox radars but by then 800 NAS and most importantly Sandy Woodward had no confidence in it and operated their Sea Harrier accordingly; ie not using the radar much and not trying to get the most out of it.
 
It could lead to a major change in policy afterwards.
Perhaps a greater interest in a Navalised Eurofighter,(maybe with the British buying/building Tiger as a quid pro quo) France not pulling out of the project. Maybe even collaborating with France on a new
(conventionally propelled) carrier design.
 
Guys, we're kind of getting away from Imperial Empire's original questions.


Would Argentina still start the war if Britain still has large aircraft carriers?
More than likely. Considering how old and knackered the carrier would be by that point it would likely be slated to be be paid off and decommissioned in the 1981 defence review which saw plans to withdraw HMS Endurance, combine that with the unfortunate mixed messages the Fireign Office were sending out, the Junta needing a big propaganda win to shore up their flagging regime, and their belief that a soft democratic nation like the UK, led by a woman no less, would not be willing to travel so far to reclaim the islands and I think they would have still carried out the invasion.


I don't believe that Chinook would fit down the lift - one of the design features of the new carriers is that it does and that it can fit in the hanger.
How large were the lifts do you know? If not the Chinook I have to wonder about the CH-46 Sea Knight since its both smaller and has folding rotor blades for use onboard US Navy ships. Whilst they dithered to begin with when the Americans eventually came down on the UK's side they opened up their military stores and basically told the British they could have whatever they wanted, borrowing a few helicopters would have been a small matter.
 
Assuming they were the same as HMS Centaur's - 55x44ft (foreward and aft). You'd just about get a Chinook on there with the rotor blades folded (assuming you can). The Chinook's taller than a Centaur's hangar though (17'6'' hangar vs 18'11'' chopper)
CH-46 Sea Knight apparently has a rotor head height of 16 feet 9 inches so would be able to fit, lift capacity of 24 troops or 5,000 pounds of cargo either onboard or slung underneath - that's enough to carry a 105mm Light Gun. Squadron of those is going to see much less tabbing/yomping about thanks to improved mobility, increased logistical support, and potentially easier offensive operations if they're supported by say a battery of guns that's been airlifted in five miles back down the road or simply a fuck off load of mortar rounds.
 
The main problem with the small British carries that were used could not launch large aircraft that could be used as a AWACS. If the British could have had a E-2 providing long range radar coverage they would have significantly fewer loses. The helicopter substitute that they used has significant less capable then an E-2
 
The main problem with the small British carries that were used could not launch large aircraft that could be used as a AWACS. If the British could have had a E-2 providing long range radar coverage they would have significantly fewer loses. The helicopter substitute that they used has significant less capable then an E-2

The Sea King AEW didn't see service during the war, it was developed too late, and isn't a patch on an E2 even as the E2 was back in 1982 but it was a hell of a lot better than nothing.
 
Interesting pots from Obi Wan Russell a while back on Warships1

The Sea King AEW variant was proposed for the Invincible class in the late 70s, so preliminary studies into the feasibility of the design must have been sitting on a shelf at the MOD at the start of the war. The Sea King AEW was opposed by the RAF prior to 82 because they claimed their Shackleton AEW2s could provide the RN with all the cover they needed (in the NORTH Atlantic).
 
It would never happen but the RN could have used AEW balloons or dirigibels.

They might have also tried to use picket ship for early warning though it would have been easy pickings.
 
Interesting pots from Obi Wan Russell a while back on Warships1

The Sea King AEW variant was proposed for the Invincible class in the late 70s, so preliminary studies into the feasibility of the design must have been sitting on a shelf at the MOD at the start of the war. The Sea King AEW was opposed by the RAF prior to 82 because they claimed their Shackleton AEW2s could provide the RN with all the cover they needed (in the NORTH Atlantic).

Yes, the Low Altitude Surveillance Task, using the then new Searchwater radar that was introduced in the Nimrod MR2 from 1979.

Do you have a link for OWRs post?
 
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