Differences Between a Surviving Valois-Orléans-Angouleme France and the Bourbon France of OTL

Emperor Constantine

Back on topic, what would the POD in this case be exactly? Is the aim to make the Valois as successful as the Bourbons, make the Valois' imperial ambitions succeed or establish reigning cadet branches? Without knowing what the aim is I'm not sure what way to go POD/scenario wise.
 

Kellan Sullivan

Emperor Constantine said:
Back on topic, what would the POD in this case be exactly? Is the aim to make the Valois as successful as the Bourbons, make the Valois' imperial ambitions succeed or establish reigning cadet branches? Without knowing what the aim is I'm not sure what way to go POD/scenario wise.
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I was thinking in the 1530s. Karl V marries his niece (Maria of Viseu) off to the dauphin instead of his widowed sister. Or maybe he agrees to a double match (although I think that might be considered a waste). The Dauphin survives whatever killed him in 1536, and fathers a couple healthy kids (including sons). Caterina de Medici is still at court as the wife of the duc d'Orléans. Haven't given much thought to the duc d'Angouleme yet. But let's assume he survives his act of colossal stupidity as well. Maybe.

How's that sound?
 

Emperor Constantine

Kellan Sullivan said:
I was thinking in the 1530s. Karl V marries his niece (Maria of Viseu) off to the dauphin instead of his widowed sister. Or maybe he agrees to a double match (although I think that might be considered a waste). The Dauphin survives whatever killed him in 1536, and fathers a couple healthy kids (including sons). Caterina de Medici is still at court as the wife of the duc d'Orléans. Haven't given much thought to the duc d'Angouleme yet. But let's assume he survives his act of colossal stupidity as well. Maybe.

How's that sound?
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Infanta Maria of Viseu's marriage would be decided by her brother King John III of Portugal, not her uncle the Emperor. I had a better idea. From what I've read in Leonie Frieda's excellent biography on Catherine de' Medici none of her children, aside from Margot, inherited her sturdy constitution. Furthermore her eldest sons suffered from septic sores and fits of dementia (Charles IX especially) which suggested genetically inherited syphilis from their grandfather Lorenzo II de' Medici. So my idea for the POD would be having all of Henri and Catherine's children born healthy and none inherit syphilis. This potentially means François II is much healthier and has children with Mary, Queen of Scots, giving the Valois control of Scotland and a claim on England. Further, it also means that, assuming the Jagiellons go extinct and a French Prince is elected King of the Commonwealth, Poland could end up under a Valois cadet branch. Though in the Duc d'Angoulême surviving and gettinf the Netherlands, and the Valois line would be sitting very powerful. Of course might also be better to have Henri II survive his jousting indecent. He might not have been a brilliant monarch but he was a strong one and under his reign would have likely avoided the Wars of Religion.
 

Kellan Sullivan

Emperor Constantine said:
Infanta Maria of Viseu's marriage would be decided by her brother King John III of Portugal, not her uncle the Emperor. I had a better idea. From what I've read in Leonie Frieda's excellent biography on Catherine de' Medici none of her children, aside from Margot, inherited her sturdy constitution. Furthermore her eldest sons suffered from septic sores and fits of dementia (Charles IX especially) which suggested genetically inherited syphilis from their grandfather Lorenzo II de' Medici. So my idea for the POD would be having all of Henri and Catherine's children born healthy and none inherit syphilis. This potentially means François II is much healthier and has children with Mary, Queen of Scots, giving the Valois control of Scotland and a claim on England. Further, it also means that, assuming the Jagiellons go extinct and a French Prince is elected King of the Commonwealth, Poland could end up under a Valois cadet branch. Though in the Duc d'Angoulême surviving and gettinf the Netherlands, and the Valois line would be sitting very powerful. Of course might also be better to have Henri II survive his jousting indecent. He might not have been a brilliant monarch but he was a strong one and under his reign would have likely avoided the Wars of Religion.
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I've also seen it suggested (though admittedly the biography of Catherine that I read this in might be dated. Can't remember the title of it) that it was the quacks' remedies that Catherine tried to induce pregnancy were at least partially to blame. But I like the idea of Catherine and Henri having healthier/better offspring. A lasting PU with Scotland is a cool idea, although I'd like to prevent a Valois England (or a Valois England but a Stewart Scotland?). So, we have potential the Valois ruling in France, Scotland (possibly in PU, although I think if Henri II starts having legitimate issue earlier, and he has a second son circa the time François II was born OTL, I wonder if he wouldn't marry the wee queen of Scots to a second son rather than expecting a personal union), Henri intended for his OTL second son, Louis, to be claimant to the Italian territories of his mother, so maybe a Valois-Naples or Valois-Milan (although this might be a touch ASB); or a Valois Poland and a Valois Netherlands (I think the possibility of the French taking Habsburg territories in Italy and the Netherlands is going to be an either-or scenario)
 
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