Diesel engine options for German WW2 tanks and AFVs?

German seemed to be leaders in aero and nautical diesel engines, but rarely did we seem them used for WW2 tanks or other armoured vehicles or even trucks.

German aero diesels - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205

What about diesels for the ground war?

This is not about why if if they should, but if they could and what impact they'd have.
 
German seemed to be leaders in aero and nautical diesel engines, but rarely did we seem them used for WW2 tanks or other armoured vehicles or even trucks.

German aero diesels - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205

What about diesels for the ground war?

This is not about why if if they should, but if they could and what impact they'd have.
German 2-stroke diesels wouldn't work well in ground vehicles because those engines are designed to work well only at or near a single speed and load (which aircraft and ships typically operate at). This is actually what made the Chieftain tanks' L60 engine so unreliable- being derived from the Junkers Jumo 205, it turned out to be underpowered and unreliable in ground vehicle use, while its Jumo inspiration worked well in aircraft applications.

However, later in the war the Germans did experiment with diesel engines out of the necessity of saving fuel. The only such engine I have heard of though is the Simmering-Graz-Pauker Sla 16, an Austrian design with an X-16 layout. The engine was installed in a single Tiger II for testing (which can be seen in War Thunder), which apparently went well, but it was never truly adopted. Depending on the source, it was never adopted because of the end of the war, because it was twice as expensive to produce as the HL234 engine from the standard Tiger II, or both.

Some more information on various German diesel engine projects is available on the 287th, 289th, 293rd, and 294th posts on this page.
 
However, later in the war the Germans did experiment with diesel engines out of the necessity of saving fuel. The only such engine I have heard of though is the Simmering-Graz-Pauker Sla 16, an Austrian design with an X-16 layout. The engine was installed in a single Tiger II for testing (which can be seen in War Thunder), which apparently went well, but it was never truly adopted. Depending on the source, it was never adopted because of the end of the war, because it was twice as expensive to produce as the HL234 engine from the standard Tiger II, or both.

Some more information on various German diesel engine projects is available on the 287th, 289th, 293rd, and 294th posts on this page.

Don't forget about the smaller Czech Tatra 103 V12 used in the SdKfz 234, 210 HP, aircooled
 
German 2-stroke diesels wouldn't work well in ground vehicles because those engines are designed to work well only at or near a single speed and load (which aircraft and ships typically operate at). This is actually what made the Chieftain tanks' L60 engine so unreliable- being derived from the Junkers Jumo 205, it turned out to be underpowered and unreliable in ground vehicle use, while its Jumo inspiration worked well in aircraft applications.

The Germans were using some diesel-electric locomotives in the 1930s as well, http://www.marklinfan.net/db_br_v140.htm
If AJE's point is correct, the diesels for a diesel electric engine are even less applicable to tanks - one of the huge advantages of a diesel electric system is you can run the diesel at speeds and torques it likes, and use the electrics to provide what the train needs.
 
If AJE's point is correct, the diesels for a diesel electric engine are even less applicable to tanks - one of the huge advantages of a diesel electric system is you can run the diesel at speeds and torques it likes, and use the electrics to provide what the train needs.
Britain built two diesel electric tanks during WW2. Not successful, but proof of initial concept.

640px-TOG2_Tank_Bovington.jpg



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOG1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOG2

Other examples are found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission#Military_vehicles
 
I wonder if any of these diesel electric tanks could operate internal systems briefly without the engine, with just the batteries? Certainly movement wouldn't be possible (1940s is a little early for Tesla tanks), but radios, turret traverse, lights, etc?
 
I wonder if any of these diesel electric tanks could operate internal systems briefly without the engine, with just the batteries? Certainly movement wouldn't be possible (1940s is a little early for Tesla tanks), but radios, turret traverse, lights, etc?

Only enough battery to get the starter going.
US tanks includes a small generator to charge batteries and run the Radio, and not much else.

I think the few M4s that had Westinghouse electric traverse could rotate on Battery only, but not 100% sure
 
Interesting.

The easiest route to a German army diesel engine is if GM's Opel division builds the GM diesel in the late 1930s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_Series_71

Generally Opel got the tooling that was orphaned when a division of GM upgraded. The 71 series came from the first wave of Dieselization that GM was pushing, after the bought the Winton Company, and decided they could make far better diesels on their own for Marine, Bus and Locomotive uses. The older Winton tooling would be too huge for trucks, and not as good as the existing diesels they were using for Subs. Would be good for making Diesel-Electric locomotives, though.
 
US M10 Tank Destroyer was diesel. Have read for former M10 guys, the one thing they didn't like about the new M36 was its much more prone to vehicle fire from combat action.

The tank pic above with the GE drive must be the one I've seen pics of being made at what's now GE's locomotive plant in Erie, PA.
 
US M10 Tank Destroyer was diesel. Have read for former M10 guys, the one thing they didn't like about the new M36 was its much more prone to vehicle fire from combat action.

The tank pic above with the GE drive must be the one I've seen pics of being made at what's now GE's locomotive plant in Erie, PA.

Nah, Detroit Tank Arsenal. Seems Erie was making Cannon barrels, but not tanks during WWII. Kind of odd that they didn't, considering almost every other locomotive or foundry did during WWII
 
Nah, Detroit Tank Arsenal. Seems Erie was making Cannon barrels, but not tanks during WWII. Kind of odd that they didn't, considering almost every other locomotive or foundry did during WWII
Seemed they were making some or some kind of tank in Erie - the pics were from a GE history brochure I saw when I worked at the plant in Erie.
 
One interesting reason I saw recently on why Germany didn't go diesel for its land vehicles - and take this with a grain of salt, I haven't verified it - was due to limited oil supplies. Gasoline could be synthetically produced from coal, diesel could not, and that limited diesel use on land, especially with competition from the U-boat arm for oil.
 
One interesting reason I saw recently on why Germany didn't go diesel for its land vehicles - and take this with a grain of salt, I haven't verified it - was due to limited oil supplies. Gasoline could be synthetically produced from coal, diesel could not, and that limited diesel use on land, especially with competition from the U-boat arm for oil.

That doesn't seem right, it's just cracking long chain hydrocarbons. Old Coal gasification went all the way up to the very short chain Methane, CH4 that made up 'Town Gas'

Going the other way is also possible, with alkalization. That's part of the Fischer–Tropsch process to make straight-chain liquid fuels. If you can make gasoline, Diesel just has a few more Carbon/Hydrogen pairs,C10H20 to C15H28.
Iso-octane is C8H18, Heptane C7H16 Gasoline is a mix of the two, plus a few others, like Benzene, C6H6 depending what overal Octane rating and vapor point you want for the fuel.
 
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