Dien Bien Phu doesn't fall 1954

You could say that for every country that ever had colonies anywhere.

The British lost the Raj, the Americans lost the Philippines (if you want to count that as one), the Russians sold Alaska, the Spanish lost almost everything. I hope I'm taking it the wrong way, but your wording makes it sound as if mismanagement and loss of colonial holdings is a purely French invention.

No, certainly not. It just seems as if France never benefitted from its colonies, though maybe this is just the presentation of history. You're right that the US and Russia were pretty bad at it too. Britain voluntarily gave up the Raj eventually, after colonialism had finally been rejected by the worldwide community, whereas France simply fought losing battles in Algeria and Vietnam before losing what it had.


So nobody's going to respond to the more interesting question in my post, WI Vietnam is liberated freely (albeit under diplomatic pressure) by the French? Or should I start a new thread?
 
So nobody's going to respond to the more interesting question in my post, WI Vietnam is liberated freely (albeit under diplomatic pressure) by the French? Or should I start a new thread?

It could be that resources wasted in Vietnam are spent on keeping Algeria. No stigma of defeat, no algerian troops providing needed experience of Algerians, no "F*ck, another war to keep colonies" attitude in France and so on. also if france allows vietnam to leave freely algerians could be persuaded to stay part of France with greater degree of autonomy and not insist on full independance.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
So nobody's going to respond to the more interesting question in my post, WI Vietnam is liberated freely (albeit under diplomatic pressure) by the French?

And on top of everything Aktarian said, you've also got the fact that the Foreign Legion's officer corps would be MUCH, MUCH happier fighting in Algeria than in Indochina. That's their home turf, such as there could be called a "home turf" for the Foreign Legion.

There might not be that nasty business with the Legionnaires thinking about going rogue.
 
No, certainly not. It just seems as if France never benefitted from its colonies, though maybe this is just the presentation of history. You're right that the US and Russia were pretty bad at it too. Britain voluntarily gave up the Raj eventually, after colonialism had finally been rejected by the worldwide community, whereas France simply fought losing battles in Algeria and Vietnam before losing what it had.

1) UK had other colonies than the Raj and fought colonial wars to keep some of them.

2) Actually the french won in Algeria, if you look just at the military side, just like the US won in Vietnam if you look just at the military side. This is different from Indocjina where the french lost military side.

3) French had other colonies than Indocjina and Algeria and didn't fight wars in the others.

4) US and Russia still have their colonies.
 
1) UK had other colonies than the Raj and fought colonial wars to keep some of them.

2) Actually the french won in Algeria, if you look just at the military side, just like the US won in Vietnam if you look just at the military side. This is different from Indocjina where the french lost military side.

3) French had other colonies than Indocjina and Algeria and didn't fight wars in the others.

4) US and Russia still have their colonies.

1. Malaya, Aden and Kenya were the principal fights the British were involved in and once they won the military struggle they got out
2. Although at a disastrous cost in public opinion in France
3. They kept their Pacific territories but got out of Africa as soon as the British started leaving.. although the French have intervened on several occasions since then in Africa
4. what colonies does the US have? All current US territories have voted to stay part of the US as commonwealth or territories. In theory, they could join as states someday. Russia is a bit more complex needless to say, particularly regarding areas where Russians are the ethnic minority.
 
4. what colonies does the US have? All current US territories have voted to stay part of the US as commonwealth or territories. In theory, they could join as states someday. Russia is a bit more complex needless to say, particularly regarding areas where Russians are the ethnic minority.

Everything beyond the original 13 colonies.

You should be consistent. If you count France's TOM and DOM as colonies, then US states are also. It doesn't matter whether they are contiguous to the mainland or not.:D

And BTW, Algeria votes were overwhelmingly to stay french. If you discount that vote on the basis that Native population was not allowed to vote ( rightly so in my opinion ), was does it make the US territories vote, where native population also wasn't allowed to vote?
 
Everything beyond the original 13 colonies.

You should be consistent. If you count France's TOM and DOM as colonies, then US states are also. It doesn't matter whether they are contiguous to the mainland or not.:D

And BTW, Algeria votes were overwhelmingly to stay french. If you discount that vote on the basis that Native population was not allowed to vote ( rightly so in my opinion ), was does it make the US territories vote, where native population also wasn't allowed to vote?

well if you are going to count displacing the Native American population and taking over their territory as colonization, then EVERYTHING in the Western Hemisphere is just an independent colony of Britain, France, Spain or Portugal

plus of course the former Dutch colony of Surinam, and some islands the Dutch still own in the Caribbean

Algeria had about 1 million ethnic French living there (some going back 2, 3 or even 4 generations), and those people were not happy and voted against Algerian Independence. However, the rest of France voted yes, and so did most of the ethnic Algerians (those who voted anyway).

Which is part of the chain of events that led to the mutiny of some French army units, and the creation of the OAS terrorist organization.
 
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