Die Sieger

I don't get why Roosevelt would cosy up to the Kaiser in this scenario. He's done with wooing the German-American vote (their opinions won't matter for another four years), and realpolitik dictates that Roosevelt should seek to warm relations with the British on account of them being the world's greatest military and economic power rather than sidling up to second-rate Germany. This is the same Germany, if you'll recall, that was being a dick to the US about coaling stations in the Pacific and even going so far as to threaten the US with an intervention in Venezuela. The Kaiser's grandstanding brinksmanship would be very off-putting, I imagine, when set aside the more pragmatic levelheadedness of the British.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
I don't get why Roosevelt would cosy up to the Kaiser in this scenario. He's done with wooing the German-American vote (their opinions won't matter for another four years), and realpolitik dictates that Roosevelt should seek to warm relations with the British on account of them being the world's greatest military and economic power rather than sidling up to second-rate Germany. This is the same Germany, if you'll recall, that was being a dick to the US about coaling stations in the Pacific and even going so far as to threaten the US with an intervention in Venezuela. The Kaiser's grandstanding brinksmanship would be very off-putting, I imagine, when set aside the more pragmatic levelheadedness of the British.

Rather than cozy up with a first rate superpower to be dominated by it, Teddy does the logical thing and brings a second rate power up to US level. Off-putting remarks would be ignored, but could be a start of a later cold war.
The German-American electorate will matter in 2 years, because currently Teddy has an uncooperating Democratic congress. Cozy German relations over the two year period would swing the German-American electorate Progressive.
 
The bigger picture involves deciding which alliance is most favorable to US international trade. At this point in history, the US was primarily an export based economy (sort of akin to how China operates today by flooding overseas markets with cheap goods) and much of foreign policy revolved around that fundamental fact. Attempting to tangle with the British would result in the Royal Navy cutting off America's foreign markets and draining the lifeblood of her economy. Neither the Kriegsmarine nor the USN have what it takes during this era to overturn British dominance of the Atlantic, and it would be foolish to attempt to do so. Add to that the fact America's biggest trading partner lies across its northern border, and on an economic level, it pretty much behooves them not to antagonize the British by fiddling around with the Kaiser.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
The bigger picture involves deciding which alliance is most favorable to US international trade. At this point in history, the US was primarily an export based economy (sort of akin to how China operates today by flooding overseas markets with cheap goods) and much of foreign policy revolved around that fundamental fact. Attempting to tangle with the British would result in the Royal Navy cutting off America's foreign markets and draining the lifeblood of her economy. Neither the Kriegsmarine nor the USN have what it takes during this era to overturn British dominance of the Atlantic, and it would be foolish to attempt to do so. Add to that the fact America's biggest trading partner lies across its northern border, and on an economic level, it pretty much behooves them not to antagonize the British by fiddling around with the Kaiser.

Yet, my friend, the USN and the Kriegmarine together could beat the Royal Navy. Especially in a stronger reformed version of both.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
Really? I always thought the RN was pretty much uncontested on the high seas up until the late '30s. Well, the more you know...

Well when you have the second and the fifth (?) largest navies looking to kick your ass.

Also starving Britain and cutting through the English channel is an easy way to win a war (without a World War I sea lion)
 
Has anyone cut through the English Channel in modern times? IIRC, it was one of the most heavily guarded bits of sea in the world, which leaves only the GIUK gap through which North Sea fleets can pass into the North Atlantic. I'm still kind of wary of the idea of the RN being defeated in the North Atlantic any time before the late '30s (they can bottle up the KM in the North Sea and much of the USN's raw numbers are locked up in the Pacific squadrons), but I'll admit I'm pretty much talking out of my ass when it come to early 20th cen naval stuff.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
Has anyone cut through the English Channel in modern times? IIRC, it was one of the most heavily guarded bits of sea in the world, which leaves only the GIUK gap through which North Sea fleets can pass into the North Atlantic. I'm still kind of wary of the idea of the RN being defeated in the North Atlantic any time before the late '30s (they can bottle up the KM in the North Sea and much of the USN's raw numbers are locked up in the Pacific squadrons), but I'll admit I'm pretty much talking out of my ass when it come to early 20th cen naval stuff.

No. No one has...........
 

BlondieBC

Banned
On your TL, don't put lots of text in a post with an over sized image, it makes it hard to read.

And you have to be ready to write your TL, whether or not people post replies. You can go several pages of your post with almost no comments, then have people really focus on some pretty minor issues. Your life will be easier if you don't worry about the number of comments you get.

I don't get why Roosevelt would cosy up to the Kaiser in this scenario. He's done with wooing the German-American vote (their opinions won't matter for another four years), and realpolitik dictates that Roosevelt should seek to warm relations with the British on account of them being the world's greatest military and economic power rather than sidling up to second-rate Germany. This is the same Germany, if you'll recall, that was being a dick to the US about coaling stations in the Pacific and even going so far as to threaten the US with an intervention in Venezuela. The Kaiser's grandstanding brinksmanship would be very off-putting, I imagine, when set aside the more pragmatic levelheadedness of the British.

Agreed

TR had the speak softly and carry a big stick belief. The Kaiser like to stir up trouble with his mouth. The Venezuela issue is a direct challenge to the Monroe doctrine.
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
On your TL, don't put lots of text in a post with an over sized image, it makes it hard to read.

And you have to be ready to write your TL, whether or not people post replies. You can go several pages of your post with almost no comments, then have people really focus on some pretty minor issues. Your life will be easier if you don't worry about the number of comments you get.

Advice considered. Thank you.

For the record I am about midway throughout the third update, it's just very long.
 
I don't get why Roosevelt would cosy up to the Kaiser in this scenario. He's done with wooing the German-American vote (their opinions won't matter for another four years), and realpolitik dictates that Roosevelt should seek to warm relations with the British on account of them being the world's greatest military and economic power rather than sidling up to second-rate Germany.

Are you sure?
By 1912 both the USA and German economy already have overtaken the British economy. The British still have the largest colonial empire, the largest navy and the largest foreign investments. But they aren´t the "world´s greatest military [not on land] and economic power" anymore.

This is the same Germany, if you'll recall, that was being a dick to the US about coaling stations in the Pacific and even going so far as to threaten the US with an intervention in Venezuela. The Kaiser's grandstanding brinksmanship would be very off-putting, I imagine, when set aside the more pragmatic levelheadedness of the British.

Point well taken here.
For this to work one would need a German Kaiser somewhat more restrained.
 
The bigger picture involves deciding which alliance is most favorable to US international trade. At this point in history, the US was primarily an export based economy (sort of akin to how China operates today by flooding overseas markets with cheap goods) and much of foreign policy revolved around that fundamental fact. Attempting to tangle with the British would result in the Royal Navy cutting off America's foreign markets and draining the lifeblood of her economy. Neither the Kriegsmarine nor the USN have what it takes during this era to overturn British dominance of the Atlantic, and it would be foolish to attempt to do so. Add to that the fact America's biggest trading partner lies across its northern border, and on an economic level, it pretty much behooves them not to antagonize the British by fiddling around with the Kaiser.

Are you sure about that?
Given that the USA are a continent sized country.

http://books.google.de/books?id=_xWtgkG4VCwC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false
Manufactured output of the USA which entered foreign trade (page 6):
1879: 5.8%
1914: 5.7%
Those numbers don´t quite support your view that "the US was primarily an export based economy"?
Likewise the importance of imports declined during these years.

Good luck trying to blockade them with the Royal Navy. Not to mention the fact that the Americans could answer with invading Canada? Which would really hurt the British Empire.

In 1913 the USA "accounted for more than one third of the industrial production in the world". Telling them that "it pretty much behooves them not to antagonize the British" just might p*ss them off?
Especially since the Brits in WW1 relied a lot on US exports to supply their soldiers?

Mind you, one can discuss closer US-German relations before WW1. Is that even realistic? But simply saying that "t pretty much behooves them not to antagonize the British" doesn´t sound like the right way to discuss it? :)
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
Chapter III: "We're all in the same boat"

The war story of the ship, the Neu Prussen-
When Neu Prussen was built, her construction and operating expenses were subsidised by the German and American governments, with the proviso that she could be converted to an Armed Merchant Cruiser if need be. At the outbreak of the First World War, the American and German Admiralty considered her for requisition as an armed merchant cruiser, and she was put on the official list of AMCs. The Admiralty then cancelled their earlier decision and decided not to use her as an AMC after all; large liners such as Neu Prussen consumed enormous quantities of coal (900 tons/day) and became a serious drain on the Admiralty's fuel reserves, so express liners were deemed inappropriate for the role when smaller cruisers would do. They were also very distinctive; so smaller liners were used as transports instead.
At the outbreak of hostilities, fears for the safety of Neu Prussen and other great liners ran high. During the ship’s first east-bound crossing after the war started, she was painted in a drab grey colour scheme in an attempt to mask her identity and make her more difficult to detect visually. When it turned out that the Royal Navy was kept in check by the German Navy, and their commerce threat almost entirely evaporated, it very soon seemed that the Atlantic was safe for ships like Lusitania, if the bookings justified the expense of keeping them in service.


Britain's declared exclusion zone of February 1915. Ships within this area were liable to search and attack
Many of the large liners were laid up over the autumn and winter of 1914–1915, in part due to falling demand for passenger travel across the Atlantic, and in part to protect them from damage due to mines or other dangers. Among the most recognizable of these liners, some were eventually used as troop transports, while others became hospital ships. Neu Prussen remained in commercial service; although bookings aboard her were by no means strong during that autumn and winter, demand was strong enough to keep her in civilian service. Economizing measures were taken, however. One of these was the shutting down of her No. 4 boiler room to conserve coal and crew costs; this reduced her maximum speed from over 25 knots (46 km/h) to 21 knots (39 km/h). Even so, she was the fastest first-class passenger liner left in commercial service.
With apparent dangers evaporating, the ship’s disguised paint scheme was also dropped and she was returned to civilian colours. Her name was picked out in gilt, her funnels were repainted in their traditional Cunard livery, and her superstructure was painted white again. One alteration was the addition of a bronze/gold coloured band around the base of the superstructure just above the black paint.[35]
[edit]1915


The official warning issued by the Royal British Embassy about travelling on Neu Prussen.
By early 1915 a new threat began to materialize: submarines. At first they were used by the British only to attack naval vessels, and they achieved only occasional – but sometimes spectacular – successes. Then the Submarines began to attack merchant vessels at times, although almost always in accordance with the old cruiser rules. Desperate to gain an advantage on the Atlantic, the British government decided to step up their submarine campaign. On 4 February 1915 Britain declared the seas around the British Isles a war zone: from 18 February Central Powers ships in the area would be sunk without warning. This was not wholly unrestricted submarine warfare since efforts would be taken to avoid sinking neutral ships, such as the American/German Neu Prussen[36]

Neu Prussen was scheduled to arrive in Hamburg on 6 March 1915. The Admiralty issued her specific instructions on how to avoid submarines. At sea, the ships contacted Neu Prussen by radio, but did not have the codes used to communicate with merchant ships. Captain Milter of Lusitania refused to give his own position except in code, and since he was, in any case, some distance from the positions they gave, continued to Hamburg unescorted.[38]
It seems that, in response to this new submarine threat, some alterations were made to Lusitania and her operation. She was ordered to fly only American in the War Zone, a number of warnings, plus advice, were sent to the ship’s commander in order to help him decide how to best protect his ship against the new threat, and it also seems that her funnels were most likely painted a dark grey to help make her less visible to enemy submarines. Clearly, there was no hope of disguising her actual identity, since her profile was so well-known, and no attempt was made to paint out the ship’s name at the prow.[39]
Captain Milter, apparently suffering from stress from operating his ship in the War Zone, and after a significant “false flag” controversy, left the ship; Cunard later explained that he was "tired and really ill."[40] He was replaced with a new commander, Captain William Thomas Turner, who had previously commanded Neu Prussen in the years before the war.
On 17 April 1915, Neu-Prussen left Hamburg on her 20th transatlantic voyage, arriving in New York on 24 April. A group of British–Americans, hoping to avoid controversy if Lusitania were attacked by a Royal Submarine, discussed their concerns with a representative of the British Embassy. The embassy decided to warn passengers before her next crossing not to sail aboard Neu Prussen. The Royal British Embassy placed a warning advertisement in 50 American newspapers, including those in New York (see illustration).
NOTICE!
TRAVELLERS intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies; that the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles; that, in accordance with formal notice given by the Royal British Embassy, vessels flying the flag of Germany or any of her allies, are liable to destruction in those waters and that travellers sailing in the war zone on the ships of Germany or her allies do so at their own risk.
ROYAL BRITISH EMBASSY
Washington, D.C. 22nd April 1915
This warning was printed adjacent to an advertisement for Neu Prussen's return voyage. The warning led to some agitation in the press and worried the ship's passengers and crew. Neu Prussen departed Pier 54 in New York on 1 May 1915.



THE UNITED STATES ENTERS THE WAR
The Times, London
September 15,1915

Yesterday, though many acts of attrition and arguments across the Progressive-controlled United States Congress, an act of War was passed against Britain for the illegal sinking of the Neu Prussen by a Royal Navy Submarine in June. 500 American civilians died. The ship was proudly displaying the American flag, according to sources, but was sunk anyway.

The Kaisar issued a speech saying that "As the British have sunk our ship, we shall sink Britain. America and Germany are in the same boat, one of Friendship, and I tell you Americans, you and the German people, WE are all in the same boat, and Roosevelt and I will keep it afloat!"




Concise History of the First World War

The War started in late June when Archduke Franz Ferdinand was in a killed in car in Sarajevo, Bosnia, with a car bomb exploding in the car. The Serb terrorist group the Black Hand was responisble and Austria declared war on Serbia..............
 
Top