Die Atombomben der Bundesrepublik: An Oral History of Germany's Nuclear Weapons Program

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by politicalnomad, Nov 24, 2019.

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  1. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    May 25, 2014
    Strangely (and after the fact), I realize that I have created a fictional German Chancellor that sounds a lot like Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer. It's not supposed to be that way, but I guess if you want to read it that way, it doesn't really change the story.

    The Ryanverse started it's decline after the Sum of All Fears, although I really liked Red Rabbit a lot because it feels much more like the books Clancy used to write. Also, the style I'm using here feels more Fredrick Forsyth, at least in my opinion.
     
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  2. dangerdalli Member

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    Germany
    I hope AKK as chancellor stays fiction. But now i have to read the chancellor parts in her voice... thanks
     
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  3. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    May 25, 2014
    It's not that bad, is it? Certainly better than Honecker or the current President of the United States (both are like cheese graters to my ears).
     
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  4. andys Well-Known Member

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    Ye gods but this TL is compelling. Excellent writing and concept, can't wait for the next update! Intrigued to see what the ending is as well.
     
  5. jhenderson 20 Well-Known Member

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    Cracking storytelling here.
    Well done with this tale!
     
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  6. andys Well-Known Member

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    @politicalnomad - have you got this whole TL finished, or are you still in the process of writing it please?
     
  7. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    Let me put it this way. I have figured out the hardest part in my head already (it took two weeks of research), though I'm making up all of the connective stuff as I go along.
     
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  8. Michel Van Well-Known Member

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    Aachen, Germany, Europe
    I wonder how good are Wolf connection To China ?
     
  9. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    It's the early 1970s; Maoism is still very persona non grata in East Germany.
     
  10. patch_g Well-Known Member

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    Just read this so far. Very entertaining. Hoping for more.
     
  11. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    May 25, 2014
    Okay, "Erich und Helmut Jack Some Nukes" (my funny internal name for this) will have one more update tonight before going on hiatus for the American Thanksgiving break, at least until Sunday.
     
  12. Catsmate Well-Known Member

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    The French Gerboise Bleue test was more than six months before the election of Kennedy.

    They were already nuclear capable.
     
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  13. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    He was cool with the French being a Nuclear Power, but the info that pissed him off, that the French were helping the Germans with a nuclear weapon program, were false rumors.
     
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  14. andys Well-Known Member

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    Said false rumours nicely being mentioned if ever the story appears in later years.

    "What's that you say? German nuclear weapons? That old rumour? Look, it was proved to be false back in the 60s. Why are you giving it any credence now, it's just another ridiculous conspiracy theory..."
     
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  15. Barry Bull Donor

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    Well, the way of obtaining nuclear materials as described by OP do indeed circumvent the most difficult and most prone to detect part of a nuclear bomb production project. Most of the OTL nuclear bomb projects were discovered at this stage.
     
  16. Jack Brisco NWA Powerhouse

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    Whoa! Quite a story. Makes me think, and I always enjoy stories that make me think.
     
  17. Threadmarks: Of Geologists, Physicists, and Sparrows

    politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    May 25, 2014
    "That brings us to the end of '71, correct?" inquired the Chancellor.

    "That's correct. At this stage, Wolf brings in one of his highly talented proteges, Werner Grossman, and informs him of General Secretary Honecker's concerns about nuclear proliferation and the security of atomic arms and materials. Wolf orders Grossman to plumb the HVA's files on four topics to see what's already available-the Stasi were the world's most incredible pack rats. They collected more data than they could ever really process. Anyways, Wolf gives Grossman the charge of collating all existing data concerning a) NATO's policies, procedures, and experience with dealing with lost nuclear weapons, b) information concerning how NATO moves their tactical nuclear warheads within Western Europe , c) the recruitment status of any individuals with physical access to NATO storage depots, NATO airbases, or NATO artillery units, d) updated files on assets relevant to the area of nuclear weapons. Grossman is also tasked with recruiting a clean physicist with a nuclear technology background who is not already an asset of the Stasi. Outside of Grossman, Wolf also requests a question and answer session with the HVA's geology expert concerning West Germany. You note that none of this touches on acquiring warheads or materials from the Russians, He writes in his notes that he was convinced by this point that that barring a Soviet aircraft losing a nuclear armed aircraft at the correct time and place, it was practically impossible to grab a Russian warhead or fissile material."

    "So, Wolf's trying to fill in his knowledge gaps beyond his initial orders from Honecker without arousing any suspicion from the Russians so that when the ask does come that he can lay out two to three options that could work? Right?"

    "Something like that. Grossman reports back on the US Air Force's various misadventures with SAC bombers that have crashed. Among other incidents, they lost a B-47 in 1956 with a pair of thermonuclear bombs they never recovered, there's a lost nuke sitting in a swamp in North Carolina lost off a B-52, and most famously, the Palomeres crash off the coast of Spain. In that case, the Air Force recovered all four bombs, two of which exploded, spreading radioactivity over a patch of Andalusia. Their record recovering their "Broken Arrows" is decidedly mixed. Secondly, Grossman tells Wolf that unlike the Soviets, the Americans tend to move nukes around using helicopters. They're more afraid of terrorism than the chance of a helicopter crash; their Russian comrades have the inverse problem. As far as agent recruitment, the HVA's existing assets in the Luftwaffe and Bundeswehr are insufficient to open locked doors or provide physical materials. Nuclear storage facilities have not, as until now, been a high priority recruitment focus. That can change in a hurry. He did go on to note that there would be a new class of what their Soviet friends referred to as 'Sparrows' coming available in another month or two. Finally, Grossman also identifies four to five agents who might have illuminating supporting information useful to their research task at hand. Wolf wrote that he felt prepared for his meeting with Honecker on January 21st, 1972."

    The Chancellor spoke "...an historic meeting?"

    "Oh, yes."
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  18. Threadmarks: Promotional Artwork

    politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    My photo editing skills are terrible. This is the best MS Paint and I can pull off. And if you're wondering, Honecker is indeed fondling a W33 warhead mated to a 203mm shell.
     
  19. dangerdalli Member

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    I almost forgot about the 203 mm artillery. I only was involved with the 155 mm PzH 2000 and M109 G. The nuclear shells (W48 i think) were so tiny bangs compared to the W33.
     
  20. politicalnomad Well-Known Member

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    May 25, 2014
    From my research, the W48 were indeed micronukes, the theory behind them, I believe, was to use interlocking volleys to hit Soviet forces when they were concentrated for a breakout. Such a tactical nuclear "pulse" would destroy the Warsaw Pact with very, very limited collateral damage.
     
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