Die Alte Welt Hat Überlebt- A Central Powers Victory Collaborative Timeline

[Deleted member 107125]

So I really wanted to do a timeline involving a victorious Central Powers in WWI, as well as a graphic TL. Eventually, I figured out I’d just do both, but didn’t have the time, knowledge, and bandwidth to execute it myself.
So I decided this could be a collaborative timeline, in which everybody could join in and add their own ideas, partially inspired by @Nazi Space Spy’s the Yankee Dominion.
I’ll start!

 

[Deleted member 107125]

Collaborators-
@Hindustani Person
@Bennett
@Red Arturoist
@ETGalaxy
@Damian0358
@mikroraptor
@InfernoMole
@Ferd42
@KaiserEmu
@YaaItsRewindTime
@Ella
@Gabzcervo

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

I have a rather rough idea of the Germano-"Russian" relation:

• Brest-Litovsk Treaty, maybe even a bit harsher
• Kerensky et al. fail to establish democracy
• Lenin et al. succeed in an October Revolution/military coup.
  
• But, when Lenin dies (in the late 1920s? early 1930s?), nobody from Gori takes over. There is no Bolshevik in Gori anymore.
• Instead, infighting begins and reaction rises back up. Either under a new hardline Czar, or under an ultranationalist Republic.
  
• An unstable Russian Republic (Empire?) is at first democratic, but *Russian!Hitler rises and rises.
  
• And by the 1940s, we have World War II.

I think World War II is far too rarely exploited in a CP Victory scenario.

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

My first map proposal...

 

[mikroraptor]

This was my thoughts on Europe in 1921 or so, featuring:
-Austria-Hugary is weakened, but not dead yet
-A civil war in the ottoman Empire, with Communists, Nationalists, Armenian separatists, Assyrians, Kurds, and Arabs (and a Greek intervention in Smyrna)
-Serbia is larger
-France is in civil war
and the rest I think has been covered before

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

I expanded upon my map, including a large(r) Communist state in Western Europe:

 

[Oliveia]

Bit of a WIP, but here's my proposal for Europe by, say... 1930-40?

Details I couldn't convey through a map:
*Second Spanish Republic is a thing here, though more federal and conservative (the upper-class of Spain was pro-Germany, so I wouldn't doubt that Germany would try to make sure they still had some power in Spain)
*France is still claiming Alsace-Lorraine, with some irridentists going so far as to claim Luxembourg, too.
*A Poland that is hotly contested between Germany and A-H
*A United Kingdom of Yugoslavia which claims the Slavic provinces of Austria-Hungary (Croatia-Slavonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Carniola, and Istria), as well as some proponents of union with Albania or Bulgaria.
*A massively revanchist Greece which wants to decimate Bulgaria
*A Ukraine that is, though ruled by a Hohenzollern, far more independent than Byelorussia or the United Baltic Duchies. It is, technically, the United Kingdom of Greater Ukraine (comprised of Ukraine Proper, Crimea, Kuban, and Circassia)
*Maybe some other stuff I'll decide on later.

IDEAS I HAVE:
*United Arab State (the French and Brits would value an ally in the region, as opposed to more land to divvy up. I'm suggesting that the Brits respect the McMahon-Hussein Correspondence as opposed to Sykes-Picot).
*Balkanized Caucasus (based mostly off of OTL Russian Civil War -- Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Mountainous Republic, etc.)
*Rump Russia under Tsar Michael III

 

[ETGalaxy]

Here’s my idea for a list of American presidents from Woodrow Wilson to a few decades after the POD:

• Woodrow Wilson (Democratic Party) 1913-1921
• William Gibbs McAdoo (Democratic Party) 1921-1929
• Alfred Smith (Democratic Party) 1929-1933
• Charles Curtis (Republican Party) 1933-1936
• Frank Orren Lowden (Republican Party) 1936-1937
• Jacob Coxey (Democratic-Labor Party) 1937-1949

Alright, so just to explain things, my basic idea is to take what @InfernoMole and I discussed and make the Democrats a socially conservative but slightly populist party throughout the 1920s before the economy collapses in the United States around the same time as OTL. When the more progressive Al Smith is nominated in 1928, the Democratic Party splits in two, with conservatives forming the American Party while progressives and populists maintain control over the Democrats. After the market liberal Republicans do a mediocre job in the early 1930s, the Democrats and Farmer-Labor Party merge to form the social democratic and populist Democratic-Labor Party, with Jacob Coxey serving three terms (likely due to a WWII-esque conflict in the 1940s).

Hopefully this looks good, but I’m open to retcons.

 

[Oliveia]

Made a wikibox for my idea for Russia -- an authoritarian military state run by a strong, experienced man of war.

For reference: Anatoly Pepelyayev was a White Russian military figure that was Siberian and also pretty fairly anti-Bolshevik. Butterflies (including the Bolsheviks failing to establish a state following the death of Lenin) lead to both men living for much longer.
All the names for the children and parents of Kolchak come straight from Google, so any inaccuracies can be pinned on them and not me.

 

[InfernoMole]

Here, @ETGalaxy, @Hindustani Person, have this take at a possible 1920 US presidential election in this universe - that is, if Wilson wins 1916 and America does not enter the war.

Frank O. Lowden, who was a favorite of the conservative wing of the Republicans IOTL, emerges as the frontrunner early on without Leonard Wood's presence, and Wisconsin Senator Irvine Lenroot is selected Vice President to unite the party's progressive and conservative wings. However, with Wilson being viewed largely positively as a progressive peacekeeper amidst a bloody European war (racism notwithstanding), his presidency creating a new American "normalcy" and German-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans and Irish-Americans not being turned off by Wilson's increasingly prevalent Anglophilia (though Polish-Americans do grow a bit more apathetic by 1920), the McAdoo/Baker ticket triumphs over the Lowden/Lenroot ticket, even if by a narrow margin.

 

[Ferd42]

Here you go.

 

[mikroraptor]

The Irish Civil War (August 10, 1920-September 5th, 1921) Was a conflict fought between Irish Monarchists, Irish Republicans, the Hibernian People's Army, and the Ulster Free State.
The conflict began with the death of Iaoichim I, the Hohenzollern king of Ireland.
His son Searlas III, was only four years old.
The Ulster free state used the opportunity to try and reclaim the lands of the Province of Ulster. At the same time, Socialists and Nationalists rose up across the countryside.
The situation prior to the war

Irish nationalist forces soon United into the Irish Republic, while the socialists formed the Hibernian People's Army.

Above can be seen the socialists and nationalists' peak. The royal Irish government had the advantage of foreign backing, while the rebels had the capacity for guerrilla warfare. Soon, a stalemate was reached between the Republican forces and the Royals. The royalists then doubled down on the socialists, killing their leader, and then moving northward on the Ulsterian forces.
Unable to reach a decisive victory against the Republican forces, the two factions signed an agreement, limiting the power of the monarchy, and the German influence over the country. Ireland would remain a German ally, but would be far more liberalized and self sufficient than most of the members of Mitteleuropa.

The distribution of forces as of the armistice is shown above.

I will delete the original post, and submit this one to you all

 

[Deleted member 107125]

• So the canon for Europe is
• Russia, Britain, Portugal, Spain go Fascist
• France goes red
• Ukraine- first led by Skoropadsky, occupied by Fascist Russia, then King Vasyl I gets the throne
• Poland- under King Karol I Habsburko-Lotarynski
• Baltics- Livonia and Estonia are the United Baltic Duchy, Finland is the Kingdom of Finland and possibly owns Karelia, Courland and Semigallia, K. Of Lithuania
• Balkans- Serbia and Montenegro are ruled by Prince Mirko, Illyria by Archduke Leo Karl (this idea was by @Sailor Haumea), Austria-Hungary is now the Archduchy of German Austria and the Kingdom of Hungary
• Germany now owns Luxembourg and Liège
• Caucasus- German and Turkish puppet states of Georgia, Transcaucasia, Dagestan, Crimea, Don, and Kuban
• Czechoslovakia exists as in OTL

Is this okay with you guys?

 

[Deleted member 107125]

Asia-
Japan owns a large chunk of Asia including all of its pre-WWI territory, but does not own German Shandong and German New Guinea. The rest of China is in a mess. In the south, the Kuomintang are trying to build a republic in
Guangdong with American help. The Germans tried to get Puyi on the throne, but they only can command the area between Shandong and Guangdong. The Bogd Khanate now includes inner Mongolia. Buryat-speaking regions are independent, though the Soviets have been trying to crush them for a while now, as does Tuva. Manchukuo is also part of China btw.The rest of China is the same as OTL. Oh yeah, and the Far East and Siberia are an independent Hetmanate.
Details about the Caucasus can be seen in the Europe post.
The Bombay and Bengal presidencies, as well as the areas of the British Punjab and Bihar provinces that aren’t princely states, as well as the United and Central Provinces are one country. The rest of India is made up of the Federation of Madras, consisting of all of the Madras Presidency, excluding Coastal Karnataka, Hyderabad, consisting of the OTL Hyderabad state and its condominium with Britain in Berar, Kolhapur state, Mysore state, which now includes the Coastal regions of India’s Karnataka state, Travancore, Cochin, the Phulkian confederation (Patiala, Nabha, Jind, and Faridkot states), Bahawalpur, Kalat, Gwalior, Indore, Bhopal, Rampur, Chitral, Dir, Swat, Jammu and Kashmir, Khairpur, Umerkot, Kapurthala, Tehri Gahrwal, Chamba, Bahshahr, Suket, Kangra, Rajputana, Baroda, Nawanagar, which now owns all of Southern Gujarat’s peninsular region , Kutch, Dang, Alipura, and Odisha.
Geez.
The Ottoman Empire now owns Cyprus and the islands of eastern Greece, as well as Iranian Azerbaijian. The OTL Mandate of Palestine is an autonomous state of the Ottoman Empire. Hejaz still exists, and is at war with Nejd (Hejaz is winning), the Khuzestan province of Iran is independent.
Khiva and Bukhara still exist, so does the Alash Autonomy.
French Indochina is now the Independent Indochinese Federation, although it excluded some parts of western Cambodia which is now Thai.
The Federated Malay States are now independent.

Africa-
France and Britain lose all of their African territories. The mountainous northern areas of Niger near the Aïr range are an independent Tuareg state, Morocco is a German protectorate, while the Middle Atlas Mountains are a (German) autonomous Berber region. Egypt is an Ottoman client state,Libya is independent but closely aligned with the Central powers, Burkina Faso and Mali are united, Darfur is an Ottoman client state, and Italian and British Somaliland are united.The rest of colonial Africa goes to Germany, including the Portuguese colonies, and South Africa now owns Rhodesia. Zanzibar is a German protectorate.
Europe-
Belgium lost Liège to Germany and Luxembourg is now fully German. France and Wallonia are both Communist. The Netherlands doesn’t get much. Poland is independent, and includes all of Congress Poland, the Duchy of Krakow,and Silesia.Belarus includes all of Black and White Ruthenia. Ukraine includes all of OTL Ukraine except for Crimea, but also includes all of Bukovina and Bessarabia.Austria consists of all of the Republic of German-Austria, and Hungary is the OTL Kingdom of Hungary.
Slovenia, Croatia, and Slavonia belong to the Kingdom of Illyria, which, along with Serbia, has a condominium over Bosnia and Herzegovina. Serbia consists of Montenegro, Serbia, and Kosovo.
Bulgaria owns Dobruja and Banta. Macedonia is independent and consists of OTL North Macedonia, Serbian Macedonia, and Greek Macedonia.
Italy is undergoing a bad civil war, but you don’t need to cover that.
Finland owns Karelia. The Baltic region includes the United Baltic Duchy of Livonia and Estonia, the Duchy of Courland and Semigallia, and the Kingdom of Lithuania.
For help w/Ireland, look at Mikoraptor’s maps.
South America-
Not much changes, but German Guiana now exists and is in a small war with the US.
North America-
Not much change
Oceania-
Germany retains its colonies in the Pacific, and even expands to include Tonga and British New Guinea.
This is just my canon

 

[mikroraptor]

Europe so far on the Q-BAM. Please let me know if there is anything that needs to be changed (Africa is still a WIP)
As I said this is of 1921, so this is showing the middle of the Irish Civil War, and the end of the war in France. Should there be a "Free France" in Corsica?

 

[mikroraptor]

Q-BAM of the world in about 1921, a few years after the end of the war.
AFRICA:
I reduced France and Britain's colonies,added the Berber and Tuareg Homelands, and gave British Somaliland to Ethiopia
ASIA:
The resurgent Qing dynasty and the Kuomintang governments are shown, Indochina is independent, there is a Revolution in Japan, an independent Siberia (but for how long?), and I left India as it is, cause I do not have a sufficient knowledge on the Princely States to do it justice, so if anyone wants to patch it in, feel free.
THE AMERICAS:
The Guiana war is shown.
EUROPE:
The French and Irish civil wars draw to a close, Italy has a civil war of its own, the Balkans are a mess, Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, Baltic Duchies, Don, Kuban, the Mountain Republic (which I would love to call Montana, just to confuse Geography students), and Georgia are independent, with varying degrees of German influence

EDIT: updated map. I reduced the Baltic Duchy, gave Belarus its independence, and attempted to make a reasonable Mittelafrika
Updated map again, added India, France-in-Exile, gave Russia back Saint Petersburg, and gave the colonies to Red France

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

I achieved lots of progress, in no small part thanks to copying parts of @Drex 's map on Page 170. The Balkans, France and vast areas of Asia (esp. all of India, but also the Tibetan and Uyghur borders) are from this map.

I am totally open to criticism, and even to people changing things on their own on the map. Tomorrow I will most likely tackle the Americas and Western Africa...

The colours are a mix from the SUCK and THICC colour schemes, with Romanist countries being marked as far-right.

 

[ETGalaxy]

Please! I'd love to see your take on Mittelafrika.

Alright, here's my take on post-WWI Africa.

Germany's acquisitions are more or less built around compromises with the British, with German acquisitions in Central Africa and Madagascar being compromises for not annexing the British Gold Coast or Rhodesia. Eastern Africa is an autonomous confederation of colonies, while the rest of Mittelafrika is more or less independent of any larger government (excluding Berlin, obviously), with the united Mittelafrikan colonial regime holding very little power. Morocco is also a German protectorate while rebellions in French and Italian colonies have resulted in a few new independent (but German-aligned) nations. I'd love to add in more German protectorates, autonomous regions, and internal divisions just for a really complex Mittelafrika, but this is what I've got for now.

 

[mikroraptor]

@Hindustani Person is this better?

 

[mikroraptor]

This is (hopefully) the final version of the 1921 map, just a few years after the end of the great war. I have added @Hindustani Person's India, and @ETGalaxy's Mittelafrika.

EUROPE:
-Germany gains Luxembourg and Liege
-Belgium is split into the Kingdom of Flanders and the Commune of Wallonia
-Italy is in a civil war between the Liberal Monarchists and the Roman Restorationists, with Sicily being de facto independent
-The Civil war in France draws to a close, as the government evacuates from Marseilles to Madagascar
-Ireland's civil war is ongoing
-Austria-Hungary splits into: The Austrian Empire, the Kingdom of Hungary, the Republic of Czechoslovakia, and the Kingdom of Dalmatia
-Big Macedonia is the best Macedonia (says Macedonia)
-To the east, Russia is humiliated, forced to pay much of the economic reparations for the war, and give up the following countries: The Kingdom of Lithuania, the Kingdom of Poland, the United Baltic Duchies, the Republic of White Russia, the Kingdom of Ukraine, the Crimean Republic, the Don Cossack State, the Kuban Free State, the Mountainous Republic of the Southern Caucasus (also called Montana), the State of Georgia, and the Ottoman puppet states of Armenia, Aizerbaijan, and Dagestan

ASIA:
-The Hetmanate of Siberia declares independence from Russia, and slowly begins withdrawing from Manchuria
-Mongolia and Tannu Tuva are in personal union with each other
-The Chinese civil war rages on, with the American backed Republic of China, versus the German backed Later Qing Dynasty, under Puyi. This will help create the tensions between Germany and the US that led to the Guiana war.
-Indochina and Malaya are independent
-During the war, Britain lost all effective control over India, and in the treaty of Strasbourg*, the many princely states are freed from British rule
-A pan-Arab revolt begins in Nejd

AFRICA:
-Germany creates Mittelafrika "from Kamerun to Zanzibar!"
-Red France is allowed to keep most of its West African colonies
-The Egyptian Empire is proclaimed (though they are heavily Ottoman influenced)
-Berber and Tuareg states are carved out of French territory
-Ethiopia is allowed to keep British Somaliland, after occupying it during the war.
-The Gallic Republic in Exile is declared on Madagascar, and they vow that one day, they shall return to France

THE AMERICAS:
-The Great War had little effect on the Americas, with the exception of the Occupation, and Annexation, of French Guiana by Germany. Germany also began to back several coup attempts in Cuba and other Latin American countries, in blatant disregard of the Monroe Doctrine. Although the United States had managed to stay out of the Great War, America issued an ultimatum to the German Empire to withdraw from Guiana, and cease its activities in Latin America. When Germany refused, The United States launched an amphibious invasion of Guiana, shown here about 2 months in

*The Treaty of Strasbourg is alt-Versailles, chosen because the Entente delegates would have to drive through the Western Front, and see the carnage they wreaked upon the landscape