Deleted member 107125
The memoirs of the Austro-Hungarian foreign minister
Die Alte Welt Hat Überlebt- A Central Powers Victory Collaborative Timeline
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[QUOTE="mikroraptor, post: @Aloha May, does this make sense? (Ignore the other countries on the map, the map is outdated)[/QUOTE]
I think the map is good, but perhaps that bump on the side is a tad too bulbous
The map below is a good reference for WWI borders for most of Europe at the time, although specific areas are not entirely accurate (it's definitely helpful for Belarus's borders anyway):
I think the map is good, but perhaps that bump on the side is a tad too bulbous
The map below is a good reference for WWI borders for most of Europe at the time, although specific areas are not entirely accurate (it's definitely helpful for Belarus's borders anyway):
People in WWII
Some ideas for some of the leaders of ww2 ITTL.
Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili*
As a youth, he was active in several Communist organizations in Russia, but decided to return to his homeland of Georgia, to try and spread the Revolution.
He joined the army, and quickly gained popularity for crushing a revolt in South Ossetia. In 1932, with support from France, he lead a military coup against the government, establishing himself as absolute ruler of Georgia. When Russia invaded, he led a government in exile, until the collapse of Russian control in 1947. He dies in 1953. He remains a controversial figure in Georgia, being a national Hero to some, and a brutal tyrant to others.
Winston Churchill
First Lord of the Admiralty in the Great war, was forced into exile to Canada by the leadership of the Proactive government due to speaking out against the regime
Benito Mussolini
One of the founders of the Romanist party, became the head of the Ministry of Informational Affairs during WW2. Became Consul in 1950, retired in 1971.
*Joseph Stalin
Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili*
As a youth, he was active in several Communist organizations in Russia, but decided to return to his homeland of Georgia, to try and spread the Revolution.
He joined the army, and quickly gained popularity for crushing a revolt in South Ossetia. In 1932, with support from France, he lead a military coup against the government, establishing himself as absolute ruler of Georgia. When Russia invaded, he led a government in exile, until the collapse of Russian control in 1947. He dies in 1953. He remains a controversial figure in Georgia, being a national Hero to some, and a brutal tyrant to others.
Winston Churchill
First Lord of the Admiralty in the Great war, was forced into exile to Canada by the leadership of the Proactive government due to speaking out against the regime
Benito Mussolini
One of the founders of the Romanist party, became the head of the Ministry of Informational Affairs during WW2. Became Consul in 1950, retired in 1971.
*Joseph Stalin
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Good ideas on Stalin and Mussolini there, but I doubt Churchill would join Romanist Britain. Definitely not under Arnold Leese.
Ok. Then what do you suggest? Maybe he's forced into exile or something, for speaking out against the regime?
Deleted member 107125
BTW, can we retcon Russia to say that the Russian Civil War was just much longer and ended only in the mid to late-20s with a white victory?
And Poland can possibly keep the house of Wurttemburg since the plebiscite held is in favour of them.
And Poland can possibly keep the house of Wurttemburg since the plebiscite held is in favour of them.
Why do you think two civil wars are implausible?
Deleted member 107125
I doubt that the Germans would allow the Soviets to stay on their borders and I doubt that the Soviets would not invade any of Mitteleuropa.
How about Germany helping the Whites after the Soviets invade Belarus?
Deleted member 107125
Just began working on a revised map. Pumped for the day when this thread is revived. Long live the Mutiny! Long live the Kaiser!
Also here’s a possible anthem for the Sorelians if you change the name to something like ‘L’appel du la Patrie’ or whatever my French sucks
A rough timeline for interwar Russia by Hindustani Person
Deleted member 107125
’Once upon a time
There lay a foolish man
From the lands of Ind he hailed
His ambitions were incomparable
But his follies were very little
And everything he did late
The end’
-Unknown, ‘The Ballad of the person of Ind’
In all seriousness, I think we should continue this. Here’s a basic Russia TL.
There lay a foolish man
From the lands of Ind he hailed
His ambitions were incomparable
But his follies were very little
And everything he did late
The end’
-Unknown, ‘The Ballad of the person of Ind’
In all seriousness, I think we should continue this. Here’s a basic Russia TL.
- 1919- Lev Bronstein is assassinated by an anti-Semitic reactionary in the midst of the Russian civil war
- 1920- ‘The Great Chaos’ begins as German troops invade Soviet-occupies Belarus in ‘Operation Hermann’, named after Prince-Bishop Hermann of the Teutonic Order, who was known for his failed invasion of Novgorod under Alexander Nevsky. This invasion is more successful, and causes a significant blow to the Soviet Union
- Alexander Kolchak (the admiral and polar explorer, not the famous social media influencer @Admiral A. Kolchak ) begins to make further advances west
- 1922- Lenin, whose health is already deteriorating, dies in December. Kolchak, despite gaining further victories, is mortally wounded. Stalin escapes to Paris- there he founds a Communist group to ‘liberate Russia’, which is funded by the French government, although some politicians such as Léon Blum criticise this due to Stalin’s authoritarianism. His Georgian comrades including Beria travel there with him.
- 1924- Kolchak, despite his terrible health, is sworn in as the new President of Russia. He promises to uphold democracy (to quote Alexander Kolchak himself- ‘I love democracy. I love the republic.’) and bring security to Russia. Of course he wins the vote in the election.
- 1926- Anastasy Vonsyatsky forms the ‘All-Russian New White Organisation’. While ultra-nationalist and Orthodox, it is not anti-Semitic
- 1928- Although Kolchak’s health is getting even worse, he continues to stand in elections and (somewhat suspiciously) win them. Anastasy Vonsyatsky dies of unknown causes and is replaced by Konstantin Rodzaevsky, a 21-year old renegade.
- 1930- Rodzaevsky and his friend Lev Okhotin hold a public rally in Moscow; this rally eventually turns into a fight between a Rodzaevsky and Russian police, leading to Rodzaevsky being tried and convicted for a years’ sentence.
- 1932- Rodzaevsky decides to be stupid again and stages a coup in Volgograd; but a sympathetic judiciary and lax governance means that he basically suffers no consequences
- 1936- Alexander Kolchak is basically almost dead. Rodzaevsky, having a substantial amount of votes, is invited into government and acts as veep.
- 1938- Alexander Kolchak dies. Rodzaevsky takes power, and titles himself ‘Vozhd for life’. He bans elections, allows himself to veto all laws passes, and changes the constitution. Massive anti-Semitic pogroms are committed on an even larger scale that earlier.
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I am still interested, but I also think my version of two Russian civil wars is quite a bit more plausible than seeing just one. Especially because I don't think a Kolchak-led Republic from the beginning could be unstable enough to fall to Rodzaevsky et al.
Though I don't know anything about Kolchak's health etc.
Maybe, if we really want only one civil war, we could have Russia stay red and fall to Rodzaevsky in a revolution/civil war manner?
Mikroraptor’s idea for Russia
This is my idea for Russia:
1918: Russia collapses into civil war with multiple factions. The Germans back the Red army, led by the exiled Communist, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (later Lenin).
1919-1920:
The heavy price that the Bolshevik forces must pay to Germany is the brutal Treaty of Vilnius, which causes a springtime of nations, most of which are German puppets.
1920:
Most of the resistance to the Reds have either fled to the Siberian Hetmanate, or surrendered.
1921-1927: the Lenin years. Although Lenin has attempted to make an ideal Communist state, he was unable to circumvent several major problems. A massive famine crippled his economy, his old ally, Lev Bronstein, was killed in a massive anti-semitic riot, and there are still pockets of resistance across Russia, mostly led by Alexander Kolchak.
Late 1927:
Lenin dies, and the Communist party starts to fight against itself. In the chaos, Ioseb Jughashvili manages to organize an army, and take over Georgia, initially hoping to have the country join the USSR.
1928-1929
Admiral Kolchak and his followers manage to defeat the divided Communist forces. He helps establish a new Republican government, with himself as the first president, after a free and fair election.
Kolchak's personal standard. A version defaced with the coat of arms of Russia is the Presidential standard of the Russian Republic.
1932: the Russian Republic in invades Bukhara.
1933-1936
Russia slowly recovers from its famine, but the nationalists are not happy. After a minor radical right wing party leads a few riots and failed coups, a young man named Konstantin Rodzhaevsky becomes the charismatic leader of the Party to Restore Russia. In the years from 1934 onwards, the PRR gradually gained popularity, even forming a coalition with Kolchak's United Democratic party. (Kolchak thought that was the best way to keep an eye on Rodzhaevsky)
1937
After a long health struggle, the Hero of the Republic, Admiral Alexander Kolchak, dies.
Almost immediately, Rebellions begin all over the country. Communists and separatists are gaining ground. In response, Konstantin Rodzhaevsky is appointed emergency powers, and is sworn in as the president of the Russian Republic.
1938-1939
Rodzhaevsky's armies give no quarter, crushing the central Asian revolts, and executing the Communists. At the same time, the "night of the bloody swords" occurs, in which most of Rodzhaevsky's political rivals are murdered. A few months later, Rodzhaevsky bans all other political parties, leaving a rump Duma that will basically do anything that he says. All of this is accompanied by a massive buildup of the Armed forces.
1940-1943
Rodzhaevsky is appointed "Vozhd of all Russias", and the last trappings of democracy are dissolved. The Far Eastern Republic is annexed (Kolchak had negotiated the return of most of Siberia in the years before). Germany grows wary of the revanchist Russia. The *axis is formed, by Russia, Rhomania, and Hellas. Several states are annexed into Russia by corrupted plebiscite. Eventually, a Baltoslavian naval vessel will fire on a Russian ship in their territorial waters, triggering World War Two
1918: Russia collapses into civil war with multiple factions. The Germans back the Red army, led by the exiled Communist, Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (later Lenin).
1919-1920:
The heavy price that the Bolshevik forces must pay to Germany is the brutal Treaty of Vilnius, which causes a springtime of nations, most of which are German puppets.
1920:
Most of the resistance to the Reds have either fled to the Siberian Hetmanate, or surrendered.
1921-1927: the Lenin years. Although Lenin has attempted to make an ideal Communist state, he was unable to circumvent several major problems. A massive famine crippled his economy, his old ally, Lev Bronstein, was killed in a massive anti-semitic riot, and there are still pockets of resistance across Russia, mostly led by Alexander Kolchak.
Late 1927:
Lenin dies, and the Communist party starts to fight against itself. In the chaos, Ioseb Jughashvili manages to organize an army, and take over Georgia, initially hoping to have the country join the USSR.
1928-1929
Admiral Kolchak and his followers manage to defeat the divided Communist forces. He helps establish a new Republican government, with himself as the first president, after a free and fair election.
Kolchak's personal standard. A version defaced with the coat of arms of Russia is the Presidential standard of the Russian Republic.
1932: the Russian Republic in invades Bukhara.
1933-1936
Russia slowly recovers from its famine, but the nationalists are not happy. After a minor radical right wing party leads a few riots and failed coups, a young man named Konstantin Rodzhaevsky becomes the charismatic leader of the Party to Restore Russia. In the years from 1934 onwards, the PRR gradually gained popularity, even forming a coalition with Kolchak's United Democratic party. (Kolchak thought that was the best way to keep an eye on Rodzhaevsky)
1937
After a long health struggle, the Hero of the Republic, Admiral Alexander Kolchak, dies.
Almost immediately, Rebellions begin all over the country. Communists and separatists are gaining ground. In response, Konstantin Rodzhaevsky is appointed emergency powers, and is sworn in as the president of the Russian Republic.
1938-1939
Rodzhaevsky's armies give no quarter, crushing the central Asian revolts, and executing the Communists. At the same time, the "night of the bloody swords" occurs, in which most of Rodzhaevsky's political rivals are murdered. A few months later, Rodzhaevsky bans all other political parties, leaving a rump Duma that will basically do anything that he says. All of this is accompanied by a massive buildup of the Armed forces.
1940-1943
Rodzhaevsky is appointed "Vozhd of all Russias", and the last trappings of democracy are dissolved. The Far Eastern Republic is annexed (Kolchak had negotiated the return of most of Siberia in the years before). Germany grows wary of the revanchist Russia. The *axis is formed, by Russia, Rhomania, and Hellas. Several states are annexed into Russia by corrupted plebiscite. Eventually, a Baltoslavian naval vessel will fire on a Russian ship in their territorial waters, triggering World War Two
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@mikroraptor , that's excellent!
I would add that 1930 (or 1931) sees free and fair elections.
That is well possible, however I would a) call it "Russian Restoration Party" or something, and I would add a coup attempt in Volgograd (or Nizhniy Novgorod, Samara or Kasan) with a short period of Rodzaevsky's imprisonment.
I would add that 1930 (or 1931) sees free and fair elections.
That is well possible, however I would a) call it "Russian Restoration Party" or something, and I would add a coup attempt in Volgograd (or Nizhniy Novgorod, Samara or Kasan) with a short period of Rodzaevsky's imprisonment.
@Hindustani Person , may I do something of my own with some of the data I posted here (mostly: the list of Parties and Heads of state and government of Germany)? And maybe with (parts of) the World Map, too?
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