Die Alte Welt Hat Überlebt- A Central Powers Victory Collaborative Timeline

[Oliveia]

I don't think that Ukraine mashes well, but this could be something like "the day *Russian!Hitler came to power" - then this would work perfectly, @Bennett !

I don't think that there really should be Nazi-analogues ITTL, mainly, again, because it seems like a cliche way to make WW2 the exact same as WW2 IRL, just with the French as Nazis or whatever. I think what'd be more accurate is a military dictatorship overthrowing the Tsardom, under a strongman a la Putin.

 

[Wendell]

Why would a Hohenzollern, and not, say, a Wittelsbach, be King of Ireland?

 

[mikroraptor]

Why would a Hohenzollern, and not, say, a Wittelsbach, be King of Ireland?

I went off the original wiki box, which says that he is from the Von Hohenzollern line

 

[Hindustani Person]

Alright, here’s the two ideas I got for what could happen to the United States.

• My initial idea was a North American Technate, most likely led by Howard Scott. It would likely be a totalitarian meritocracy, but maybe it could liberalize later on. After all, technocratic democracies are a bit underused IMO and could be interesting.
• My other idea was a libertarian socialist United States. It’s a bit overdone, especially in CP victory TLs, but I think they’re fun to work with. If people don’t want to go with the run-of-the-mill communist or syndicalist United States, I could dig up a more zany ideology.

Do either of these interest anyone?

Both of them are great ideas!

 

[Hindustani Person]

Bit of a WIP, but here's my proposal for Europe by, say... 1930-40?
View attachment 481235
Details I couldn't convey through a map:
*Second Spanish Republic is a thing here, though more federal and conservative (the upper-class of Spain was pro-Germany, so I wouldn't doubt that Germany would try to make sure they still had some power in Spain)
*France is still claiming Alsace-Lorraine, with some irridentists going so far as to claim Luxembourg, too.
*A Poland that is hotly contested between Germany and A-H
*A United Kingdom of Yugoslavia which claims the Slavic provinces of Austria-Hungary (Croatia-Slavonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Carniola, and Istria), as well as some proponents of union with Albania or Bulgaria.
*A massively revanchist Greece which wants to decimate Bulgaria
*A Ukraine that is, though ruled by a Hohenzollern, far more independent than Byelorussia or the United Baltic Duchies. It is, technically, the United Kingdom of Greater Ukraine (comprised of Ukraine Proper, Crimea, Kuban, and Circassia)
*Maybe some other stuff I'll decide on later.

IDEAS I HAVE:
*United Arab State (the French and Brits would value an ally in the region, as opposed to more land to divvy up. I'm suggesting that the Brits respect the McMahon-Hussein Correspondence as opposed to Sykes-Picot).
*Balkanized Caucasus (based mostly off of OTL Russian Civil War -- Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Mountainous Republic, etc.)
*Rump Russia under Tsar Michael III

Could you free Crimea?

 

[Hindustani Person]

The Irish Civil War (February 10, 1919-July 7, 1920) was a conflict in the Kingdom of Ireland, between the armies of King Iaoichim I of Ireland, the Irish Parliementary Army, and the Free State of Ulster.
In 1916, After the Easter Uprisings, Germany sent military aid to the Irish rebels, on the condition that Ireland become a Kingdom, under the Von Hohenzollern dynasty. Many of the Irish Nationalists were unhappy with this arrangement, but agreed nonetheless. By 1918, the United Kingdom was losing the war in Europe, and was running out of men. So a armistice in Ireland was held, and the United Kingdom agreed to withdraw from Ireland, but insisted on an independent protestant nation in Ulster, called the free State of Ulster.
The Treaty of Wexford:View attachment 481257
As per the agreement with Germany, Ireland became the Kingdom of Ireland, with Joachim Franz Humbert Von Hohenzollern at its head. Now, why did the Germans pick this man for the crown of Ireland? Mostly to get rid of him. Joachim Franz Humbert Von Hohenzollern was a liberal, romantic nationalist, who advocated for the ideology of "Antiromanism", which believes that the nations that claim descent from ancient Rome (France, Britain, Italy, etc.) had violently opressed the "Noble Barbarian races" which included the Germans (duh), the Celts, the Slavs, and even the Jews, which he added during his stint as the Govenor of the Mandate of Palestine from 1923-25.

Many Catholic Irish were angry at having a Protestant king, and even the Protestant Irish didn't like the idea of a German as the absolute ruler of their country. To appease the Catholic majority, Iaoichim declared war on the Free State of Ulster. At the same time, a group of dissatisfied nationalists crowned Searlas III the High King of Ireland. They raised their banner in Galway, and almost the etire province of Connacht declared itself in favor of Searlas. They drafted a new constitution, which created a limited monarchy, with Eamon De Valera as Prime Minister. Soon, All of Ireland was at war.View attachment 481261
Joachim I asked he German government for aid, but they were busy with the civil war in France, and could not spare any men. Soon his armies in Ulster defected, and as the Ulster Protestants retreated to Belfast, the Irish Parliementary forces marched south, and took Dublin in March 1920. With popular uprisings, guerilla warfare, and mass desertions, king Iaoichim was soon defeated.

The fromt lines as of the Armistice of July 7th, 1920:
View attachment 481263


I hope you all like this, in particular, youmight want to build on the idea of Antiromanism

Séarlas is actually his son.

 

[Oliveia]

Made a wikibox for my idea for Russia -- an authoritarian military state run by a strong, experienced man of war.

For reference: Anatoly Pepelyayev was a White Russian military figure that was Siberian and also pretty fairly anti-Bolshevik. Butterflies (including the Bolsheviks failing to establish a state following the death of Lenin) lead to both men living for much longer.
All the names for the children and parents of Kolchak come straight from Google, so any inaccuracies can be pinned on them and not me.

 

[Drex]

@Drex , may I - as a proposal - reuse the lovely and extremely well-made borders of your map in the last (or second-to-last?) map thread? The ones I used for my own project (which never got too far)?

As much as you want.

 

[Hindustani Person]

The Irish Civil War (February 10, 1919-July 7, 1920) was a conflict in the Kingdom of Ireland, between the armies of King Iaoichim I of Ireland, the Irish Parliementary Army, and the Free State of Ulster.
In 1916, After the Easter Uprisings, Germany sent military aid to the Irish rebels, on the condition that Ireland become a Kingdom, under the Von Hohenzollern dynasty. Many of the Irish Nationalists were unhappy with this arrangement, but agreed nonetheless. By 1918, the United Kingdom was losing the war in Europe, and was running out of men. So a armistice in Ireland was held, and the United Kingdom agreed to withdraw from Ireland, but insisted on an independent protestant nation in Ulster, called the free State of Ulster.
The Treaty of Wexford:View attachment 481257
As per the agreement with Germany, Ireland became the Kingdom of Ireland, with Joachim Franz Humbert Von Hohenzollern at its head. Now, why did the Germans pick this man for the crown of Ireland? Mostly to get rid of him. Joachim Franz Humbert Von Hohenzollern was a liberal, romantic nationalist, who advocated for the ideology of "Antiromanism", which believes that the nations that claim descent from ancient Rome (France, Britain, Italy, etc.) had violently opressed the "Noble Barbarian races" which included the Germans (duh), the Celts, the Slavs, and even the Jews, which he added during his stint as the Govenor of the Mandate of Palestine from 1923-25.

Many Catholic Irish were angry at having a Protestant king, and even the Protestant Irish didn't like the idea of a German as the absolute ruler of their country. To appease the Catholic majority, Iaoichim declared war on the Free State of Ulster. At the same time, a group of dissatisfied nationalists crowned Searlas III the High King of Ireland. They raised their banner in Galway, and almost the etire province of Connacht declared itself in favor of Searlas. They drafted a new constitution, which created a limited monarchy, with Eamon De Valera as Prime Minister. Soon, All of Ireland was at war.View attachment 481261
Joachim I asked he German government for aid, but they were busy with the civil war in France, and could not spare any men. Soon his armies in Ulster defected, and as the Ulster Protestants retreated to Belfast, the Irish Parliementary forces marched south, and took Dublin in March 1920. With popular uprisings, guerilla warfare, and mass desertions, king Iaoichim was soon defeated.

The fromt lines as of the Armistice of July 7th, 1920:
View attachment 481263


I hope you all like this, in particular, youmight want to build on the idea of Antiromanism

Although the first parts aren't my favourite, since Searlas is Iaochim's son ITTL, but I do think romanism, along with Belaism in Russia is an interesting Fascism parallel

 

[Hindustani Person]

Although the first parts aren't my favourite, since Searlas is Iaochim's son ITTL, but I do think pro-Romanism, along with Belaism in Russia is an interesting Fascism parallel

And the idea of IRA as an anti-monarchist movement is something I toyed with a little, although perhaps slightly less militant

 

[Red Arturoist]

I don't think that there really should be Nazi-analogues ITTL, mainly, again, because it seems like a cliche way to make WW2 the exact same as WW2 IRL, just with the French as Nazis or whatever. I think what'd be more accurate is a military dictatorship overthrowing the Tsardom, under a strongman a la Putin.

Why would a World War II in the Kaierreich-like situation be clichéd? I quite like most proposals, but I don't agree with yours to be honest. If we were to go "Nazi France", yes, that would indeed be cliché, but I wanted to go Nazi Russia.

 

[Red Arturoist]

Here’s my idea for a list of American presidents from Woodrow Wilson to a few decades after the POD:

• Woodrow Wilson (Democratic Party) 1913-1921
• Alexander Mitchell Palmer (Democratic Party) 1921-1929
• Alfred Smith (Democratic Party) 1929-1933
• Charles Curtis (Republican Party) 1933-1936
• Frank Orren Lowden (Republican Party) 1936-1937
• Jacob Coxey (Democratic-Labor Party) 1937-1949

Alright, so just to explain things, my basic idea is to take what @InfernoMole and I discussed and make the Democrats a socially conservative but slightly populist party throughout the 1920s before the economy collapses in the United States around the same time as OTL. When the more progressive Al Smith is nominated in 1928, the Democratic Party splits in two, with conservatives forming the American Party while progressives and populists maintain control over the Democrats. After the market liberal Republicans do a mediocre job in the early 1930s, the Democrats and Farmer-Labor Party merge to form the social democratic and populist Democratic-Labor Party, with Jacob Coxey serving three terms (likely due to a WWII-esque conflict in the 1940s).

Hopefully this looks good, but I’m open to retcons.

Didn't we rather plan some revolution in the US? Or what did you and @InfernoMole discuss?

If, of course, the US can go parliamentary or at least get rid of FPTP and the electoral college in the Coxey presidency, I look forward to it. But not if you want to keep that two-party system.

 

[Hindustani Person]

That would at least enable an Amero-French Split to happen as I picture France as Orthodox Marxist. Maybe I'll make a Franco-Euskaro-Catalano-Italian Union out of this France - shall we?

?

 

[Hindustani Person]

I expanded upon my map, including a large(r) Communist state in Western Europe:

View attachment 481181

Is this the world in 2019? Because I don’t think Japan could keep Korea until today

 

[Hindustani Person]

Why would a Hohenzollern, and not, say, a Wittelsbach, be King of Ireland?

This was an OTL plan actually

 

[Red Arturoist]

Is this the world in 2019? Because I don’t think Japan could keep Korea until today

Yes, I did plan the map to be in 2019.
Really not? I thought of a democratic and less militarist, and thus also less oppressive, Japan here.

 

[Hindustani Person]

Yes, I did plan the map to be in 2019.
Really not? I thought of a democratic and less militarist, and thus also less oppressive, Japan here.

So Korea here is a less assimilated, autonomous region, sort of like Greenland?

 

[Red Arturoist]

So Korea here is a less assimilated, autonomous region, sort of like Greenland?

I thought of Korea being fully assimilated, but not really oppressed. But autonomy might also be on the cards.

Anyway, I was mostly thinking of a free form of GEACPS here. This does not depend that much on Korea belonging to Japan or being independent...

 

[InfernoMole]

Hopefully this looks good, but I’m open to retcons.

Sounds cool, though I'm rather opposed to A. Mitchell Palmer winning 1920, much less so being a two-term president: IOTL he was largely a favorite of party bigwigs and wasn't perceived as a popular or appealing candidate, and his campaign was positively drowned by opposition from labor groups.

Again, I find McAdoo to be a more likely candidate for Pres. honestly, with or without Wilson winning 1916, and it makes the 1924 election ITTL a bit more interesting. Jacob Coxey sounds rather fascinating though.

 

[Hindustani Person]

I thought of Korea being fully assimilated, but not really oppressed. But autonomy might also be on the cards.

Anyway, I was mostly thinking of a free form of GEACPS here. This does not depend that much on Korea belonging to Japan or being independent...

How about a protectorate or associated state of Japan, à la Micronesia and Palau today?