Die Alte Welt Hat Überlebt- A Central Powers Victory Collaborative Timeline

How many civil wars should Russia have?

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Hindustani Person

Hindustani Person

Jan Olbracht said:
As already mentioned Catholic Church was not strong enough to run the country, so European Iran is not option.
If you're looking for monarch-there are Wettins, there are Teschen Habsburgs (who were ethnically polonized) but neither Habsburg nor Wettin on the throne of Poland would be very liked by Hohenzollerns.
Among candidates considered OTL around the time of ww1 were Dukes of Pless from Hochberg family, who claimed to have Piast blood (Hans Heinrich XV


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Heinrich_XV_von_Hochberg
was head of family at the time, what is worth noting his son Alexander joined Polish Army as volunteer during ww2)
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Should we hold a poll on this?
 
mikroraptor

mikroraptor

Red Arturoist said:
On the question of which royal house the Kings of Poland come? Of course!

We should have as options:
  • House of Hohenzollern (or is that implausible, @Augenis and @Jan Olbracht ?)
  • House of Württemberg
  • House of Wettin
  • House of Habsburg
  • Republic
What else would you incorporate in this poll?
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My idea for Poland was for it to be a monarchy (I prefer the Wurttemburgs), basically a puppet with little autonomy from Germany, for it to be annexed by Russia during ww2, to be restored by German-Polish forces, possibly taking some land from Belaurs and Lithuania (who I think switched sides to join with Russia, especially Belarus), for Poland to return to the status quo prewar, perhaps with a little more autonomy, and then in the 1980s/1990s an Alt-Solidarity movement, and movements like it, sweep across Eastern Europe, and as it coincides with the liberalization of Germany, the Germans pull their forces out of Poland and the other countries, a referendum is held, the monarchy is dissolved, and free elections are held for the first time in Poland in 1994.

so, monarchy early on, but collapses in the late twentieth century
 

Red Arturoist

mikroraptor said:
My idea for Poland was for it to be a monarchy (I prefer the Wurttemburgs), basically a puppet with little autonomy from Germany, for it to be annexed by Russia during ww2, to be restored by German-Polish forces, possibly taking some land from Belaurs and Lithuania (who I think switched sides to join with Russia, especially Belarus),
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That was exactly my idea, or at least mostly. Poland would be something like a Reichskommissariat during WWII. And of course they would take land from Belarus.

I don't think Lithuania would betray Germany, though. Ukraine was reincorporated (i.e. anschlussed).

mikroraptor said:
for Poland to return to the status quo prewar, perhaps with a little more autonomy, and then in the 1980s/1990s an Alt-Solidarity movement, and movements like it, sweep across Eastern Europe, and as it coincides with the liberalization of Germany, the Germans pull their forces out of Poland and the other countries, a referendum is held, the monarchy is dissolved, and free elections are held for the first time in Poland in 1994.
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The idea is interesting, but I think the liberalisation of Germany etc. is far too late. I put that somewhere in the 1960-1970s, not in the 1990s. Also, why should elections be unfree before 1994? They weren't in Germany, after all.

Also, we had considered something quite reversed: Poland is liberated, becomes a democracy, and then ultra-nationalists of the Piasecki/Falanga/ONR type gain power and turn the nation into a far-right ... illiberal democracy? dictatorship?
 
mikroraptor

mikroraptor

Red Arturoist said:
That was exactly my idea, or at least mostly. Poland would be something like a Reichskommissariat during WWII. And of course they would take land from Belarus.

I don't think Lithuania would betray Germany, though. Ukraine was reincorporated (i.e. anschlussed).
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I agree, it makes more sense for Lithuania to be "Reincorporated"



Red Arturoist said:
The idea is interesting, but I think the liberalisation of Germany etc. is far too late. I put that somewhere in the 1960-1970s, not in the 1990s. Also, why should elections be unfree before 1994? They weren't in Germany, after all.
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I was thinking that the Germans still dominated the Polish elections, but yeah, it makes sense to push that part back into the 1970s, I think.

Red Arturoist said:
Also, we had considered something quite reversed: Poland is liberated, becomes a democracy, and then ultra-nationalists of the Piasecki/Falanga/ONR type gain power and turn the nation into a far-right ... illiberal democracy? dictatorship?
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What if modern-day Poland is like Weimar Germany? It's a democracy, but it has a lot of nationalist, far-right and far-left movements, though none of them have siezed control...Yet.
 

Jan Olbracht

I think Władysław Studnicki may be important figure in TTL Poland. Studnicki was former socialist turned nationalist, although he has broken his ties with Dmowski's National Democrats. Studnicki, who was Germanophile and Russophobe, viewed ND as too Russophile. During ww1 Studnicki sided with Central Powers and was involved in talks about making Wettin prince
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Christian,_Margrave_of_Meissen
Friedrich Christian (second son of Saxon king) King of Poland.
During ww2 Studnicki seek for agreement with Germans, but despite being Germanophile he still was Polish subhuman from nazi POV, so he 'achieved' imprisonment by Gestapo instead.
 
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Mikroraptor’s idea for Poland
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    • mikroraptor

    mikroraptor

    I have an idea for the political parties in modern day Poland:

    National Solidarity
    Color: Dark blue
    Ideology: Center Right, Conservative on economic issues
    One of the two successors to the Solidarity movement, and is still the dominant party in the Sejm, though it seems to be gradually losing seats.

    People's Solidarity
    Color: Dark Red
    Ideology: Left leaning, Liberal on economic issues, conservative on social issues.
    The other major successor of the Solidarity movement, currently under fire for Pro-Russian statements made by the party leader.

    Commonwealth Restoration Party
    Color: Teal
    Ideology: Moderate, Liberal on Social issues
    Although its major issue, as the name suggests, is to restore the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by gaining a majority in the Parliements of both nations, it has become increasingly popular in Poland as a moderate "third way" party.

    Socialist party
    Color: Red
    Ideology: Far left, Communist, Planned Economy
    The far left contingent of the Polish Sejm, popular in industrial areas.

    Ashkenazi Rights Coalition:
    Color: Light Blue
    Ideology: Left leaning, Jewish Interests
    Formed from a number of smaller parties, designed to protect the rights of Jews in a predominantly Catholic country.

    Polish Heritage Party:
    Color: Offically Red and White, de facto usually Grey
    Ideology: Far Right, Nationalist, Xenophobic
    Although they'd despise the comparison, they are basically the Polish version of the New White Movement in Russia. Currently the smallest party in the Sejm, but gaining popularity due to their populist sentiments...

    I might try to make an election map later, which will also show my vision for Modern Poland's borders
     
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    • Hindustani Person

    Hindustani Person

    I put up a poll for Poland’s government!
    NOTE: Seriously, why not make it an elective monarchy?
    images
     
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