Did R.E.Lee ever intend to attack/capture Washington DC?

I've seen this situation in some ATL's but as to his OTL intentions I've founbd conflicting comments. Can anyone clarify?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I don't think so. He was well aware of the fear that Lincoln and Stanton had for the safety of Washington and used it to his advantage on more than one occasion. But, IIRC, he never specifically stated any desire or intention to attack or capture Washington. His two invasions of the North (fall of 1862 and summer of 1863) were basically large raids during which he planned to subsist his army off Northern resources and win political/diplomatic points by inflicting a defeat on the Yankees on their own ground. When he sent Early northwards in 1864, it was clearly a diversion designed to weaken Grant's forces around Petersburg.
 
I've seen this situation in some ATL's but as to his OTL intentions I've founbd conflicting comments. Can anyone clarify?

He probably would have if he could but Lee knew it was never going to happen. During the war Washington was probably the most heavily fortified city on Earth. The Confederates would have been butchered if they tried to take it. They'd have to lay siege and hold off any relief armies at the same time, something far beyond their capabilities.

I don't think Lee had any intention of taking Washington because he knew it couldn't be done.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I don't think Lee had any intention of taking Washington because he knew it couldn't be done.

Early could have taken Washington had he been just a few days faster than he was IOTL, since the defenses had been denuded of troops (even the strongest fortifications need men to man them). But I think Early realized that even if he had taken the city, his men would then have become trapped there and the Yankees would have bagged the whole lot of them. Whatever advantages the South would have gained from temporarily grabbing Washington would not have compensated for the loss of 15,000 men in the summer of 1864.

I don't think either Early or Lee wanted anything other than to threaten the city and thereby draw troops away from Grant. In that regard, the raid succeeded brilliantly.
 
That was never the Confederates plan. Their whole war plan was to try too keep the Yanks out of the South and show them that the war was pointless. Both invasions of the North was just to.......
-Feed the Army
-Scare the Northern
-Get International Reconation

Even if Lee won Gettysburg, he would just have went back to Virgina. And the South would still lose the war because they lost the battle of Vicksburg, which was much more important to the Union. That alone gave them control of the Missippie River and cut the South in half. The Union was going to win the war eventually. They made both the largest army and navy on Earth. The blockade was just getting tighter. Great Britian and France didn't like Slavery, got Cotten from India and Egypt, needed food from America, and the British wouldn't want to lose Canada. The main French army was busy in Mexico. Not to mention Lincoln was planing dirty tricks to win the 1964 election. The Only reason Nevada became a state win it did was to vote for Lincoln. Not to mention only Republican soilders were aloud to vote. And even if the South won they would have collapse sooner or later. They were doomed since Fort Sumter was fired on.
 
As mentioned earlier, Lee probably never intended to capture Washington, since it was too well-defended.

However, Lee was pretty good at changing plans on the march so I'd assume that if there was a good chance Washington would fall - for example, if Marylanders welcomed his 1862 invasion with open arms - then, logistics allowing, he'd probably attempt to force the Federals out of the city with a capture of Baltimore and the destruction of the Army of the Potomac somewhere north of the capital a la Austerlitz.

Another interesting PoD could be more decisive Davis with regards to the secession of Maryland. In OTL, Davis didn't send troops to Maryland in 1861, claiming that he respected Maryland's choice (since it leant quite strongly towards secession), which allowed Lincoln to keep the state in the Union through martial law, etc. A PoD that saw an early invasion of Maryland might have caught the Federals off-guard and forced the evacuation of Washington, dealing a heavy blow to the Union right from the start.
 
Even if Lee won Gettysburg, he would just have went back to Virgina. And the South would still lose the war because they lost the battle of Vicksburg, which was much more important to the Union.

I don't know. Lee had a real long shot if he won Gettysburg. March to Baltimore and instigate a movement for slave-state Maryland to join the Confederacy. Washington, DC is now surrounded by confederate territory.
 
I don't know. Lee had a real long shot if he won Gettysburg. March to Baltimore and instigate a movement for slave-state Maryland to join the Confederacy. Washington, DC is now surrounded by confederate territory.

Well would they hear about Vicksburg before Lee reached Baltimore? If that were the case I doubt anyone is going to be looking to join a lost cause even if Lee were willing to take such a gamble.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
I don't know. Lee had a real long shot if he won Gettysburg. March to Baltimore and instigate a movement for slave-state Maryland to join the Confederacy. Washington, DC is now surrounded by confederate territory.

If Maryland doesn't go secesh in 1861, it's not going secesh. After all, the most fervent of the secessionists in Maryland left the state in 1861 to join the Confederate army in Virginia.
 
Well would they hear about Vicksburg before Lee reached Baltimore? If that were the case I doubt anyone is going to be looking to join a lost cause even if Lee were willing to take such a gamble.

The importance of Vicksburg is often exaggerated. Vicksburg gave control of the Mississippi to the USA - but controlling the Mississippi wasn't what would defeat the CSA (because it obviously didn't OTL), merely a major step towards doing that.

Victory at Vicksburg would have been a good salve, but it would have meant very little for Marylanders if Lee was running rampant around Maryland.

I suspect the more important issue is Lee's staying power. Marylanders weren't going to support secession if Lee's army couldn't be counted to stick around and repel Federal reprisals. The Army of Northern Virginia needed to prove that it could stay in Maryland - either by capturing a major Federal depot, or by mauling the Army of the Potomac. Then I think there would have been a good chance that secession, and the fall of Washington DC, could have resulted in CSA independence.
 
Even if Lee won Gettysburg, he would just have went back to Virgina.
Maryland sure was not going to rise up anytime soon, but Lee bringing a victory at Gettysburg for the Confeds means more problems for Lincoln in the short and long term than a simple victory at Vickburg.

Plus a victory at Vicksburg, although major, they still had to control the rest of the River as well.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
The rebels could never hold any loyal territory

Not western Virginia.

Not Missouri.

Not east Tennessee.

Not Kentucky when they invaded there.

Not even New Mexico.

Or Maryland.

Cripes, they could barely hold onto Jones County, Mississippi.

The CSA's logistics - such as they were - were completely inadequate for the purposes of capturing and holding territory where the population was loyal.

Best,
 
Not western Virginia.

Not Missouri.

Not east Tennessee.

Not Kentucky when they invaded there.

Not even New Mexico.

Or Maryland.

Cripes, they could barely hold onto Jones County, Mississippi.

The CSA's logistics - such as they were - were completely inadequate for the purposes of capturing and holding territory where the population was loyal.

Best,
They could barely hold their own damn coastline.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
True that

As Margaret Mitchell wrote:

"I'm saying plainly, the Yankees are better equipped than we. They've got factories, shipyards, coal mines and a fleet to bottle up our harbors and starve us. All we've got is cotton and slaves and arrogance."

Best,
 
Not western Virginia.

Not Missouri.

Not east Tennessee.

Not Kentucky when they invaded there.

Not even New Mexico.

Or Maryland.

Cripes, they could barely hold onto Jones County, Mississippi.

The CSA's logistics - such as they were - were completely inadequate for the purposes of capturing and holding territory where the population was loyal.

Best,

Are you arguing that the Confederate logistical train was so poor that it couldn't sustain it's armies long-term outside of their home territory, or that the Confederates couldn't operate in pro-Union areas simply because the population was pro-Union? If the latter: you cite Jones and East Tennessee as examples, but both are dubious. Jones was a strategic backwater anyways, and there is academic argument that the "Free State of Jones" stuff is overstated. As for East Tennessee, the Confederates held on to Knoxville until September of 1863; despite the hostility of much of the local population, they were able to sustain themselves through two full years of war. And when they were run out, it was by regular Union forces.
 
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TFSmith121

Banned
I'm simply making the point that once driven

out of a given region/state/backwater, the CSA could not redeploy or sustain deployed formations of any significance.

Price in Missouri, Bragg in Kentucky, Lee in West Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, etc.

Best,
 
That says more for Union armies generally being stronger and in a position to actively thwart Confederate efforts than some property of loyal territory turning Rebels to ash or even the weaknesses of Confederate logistics.

Price in Missouri, Bragg in Kentucky, Lee in West Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania were all given military drubbings (either defeats, or situations they couldn't continue to face with a chance of success) before they withdrew from those territories. If the AotP is crushingly defeated without the ANV suffering massive casualties of its own (as unlikely as that is), the forces in the eastern theater to do that to Lee are pretty damn slim in the summer of 1863. Someone is going to have to be diverted.
 
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