Did Japan have any real war objectives against China?

What did the Japanese militarist want? Did they really think that they could conquer the most populous land on Earth?

Was there any point where Japan could have agreed some kind of equivalant to Brest Litovsk?
 
The militarists weren't a monolith, and apart from the separate army and navy factions, there was also a divide between Tokyo and the forces on the ground in China. That said, I've come to think of it, to the extent it was calculated at all, as a big spoiling attack aimed at curbing the Kuomintang's development before they could finish rearming and possibly attempt to expel the Japanese from the country. So, destroy the KMT and ensure that no similar revisionists rise again, I suppose.
 
The goal was a puppet state under Japanese control.

That was the extreme vision. Lets list some of the important tensions between Japan & China

1. Chinas desire to return Manchuria to direct Chinese control.

2. Chinas desire to return Formosa to direct Chinese control.

3. Return of Korea as a nominally independant state within Chinas sphere of influence.

4. Eliminate 'Unequal Treaties' giving Japan economic and legal concessions within China.

See a trend here? Chinas leaders had a long term vision of eliminating Japans Asian mainland empire. Japanese goals within Asia ran directly opposite. That is control the vast markets and resources of Asia. The collapse of the Manchu dynasty & the warlord era had enabled this. The rise of the KMT threatened it.

The specifics that led to the 'China Incident' in 1937 & sustained the war through 1939-40 were a bit fuzzy. Incoherent in some respects. The underlying goal was clear tho, even if not entirely realistic. That is force the Chinese leaders to accept Japans domination of mainland Asia.
 
Not much of an expert here but it seems that given how Japan had snatched up Manchuria pretty easily, the Army leaders in the Kwantung Army felt invincible and also that the Chinese were not making the sorts of concessions they felt due. Once the fighting started, IMHO the Japanese would only stop with a surrender where the Chinese recognized the superiority of Japan. There was no defined list of goals - territorial, economic etc, it was all we are fighting for victory which was not much defined beyond "they surrender". It is important to remember that Japan had a bit of a cultural inferiority complex towards China - the Japanese writing system came from China, many cultural practices came from there, and until the latter part of the 19th century Japan was in the cultural shadow of China. To some extent the Japanese wars and incursions in to China from the end of the 19th century through WWII had an element of Japan showing THEY were the light of Asia now, not China.
 
Not much of an expert here but it seems that given how Japan had snatched up Manchuria pretty easily, the Army leaders in the Kwantung Army felt invincible and also that the Chinese were not making the sorts of concessions they felt due. Once the fighting started, IMHO the Japanese would only stop with a surrender where the Chinese recognized the superiority of Japan. There was no defined list of goals - territorial, economic etc, it was all we are fighting for victory which was not much defined beyond "they surrender". It is important to remember that Japan had a bit of a cultural inferiority complex towards China - the Japanese writing system came from China, many cultural practices came from there, and until the latter part of the 19th century Japan was in the cultural shadow of China. To some extent the Japanese wars and incursions in to China from the end of the 19th century through WWII had an element of Japan showing THEY were the light of Asia now, not China.
I thought Japan had wanted a negotiated peace with China but Chiang and the National Front was determined to fight on indefinitely?
 
I thought Japan had wanted a negotiated peace with China but Chiang and the National Front was determined to fight on indefinitely?

Well, if you look at the vague ideas they had for peace with America, you remember that Imperial Japan had some very dubious ideas of what a fair peace looked like.
 
Here's a question. If we assume that their core aim had been forcing recognition of 'Manchukuo', if the Japanese had gone to China at the worst point of the war for the KMT and only demanded recognition of Manchukuo, would the KMT have agreed to that? I know Japan's actual demands at one point were waaaaaaay more than that so were shot down but if they'd kept it realistic?
 
Here's a question. If we assume that their core aim had been forcing recognition of 'Manchukuo', if the Japanese had gone to China at the worst point of the war for the KMT and only demanded recognition of Manchukuo, would the KMT have agreed to that? I know Japan's actual demands at one point were waaaaaaay more than that so were shot down but if they'd kept it realistic?

Well probably the Japanese diplomats would instantly have been assassinated by junior army officers for dishonouring the sacrifice of all the soldiers who died in China.
Realistic is never a word to use about Japan between the wars.
 
Here's a question. If we assume that their core aim had been forcing recognition of 'Manchukuo', if the Japanese had gone to China at the worst point of the war for the KMT and only demanded recognition of Manchukuo, would the KMT have agreed to that? I know Japan's actual demands at one point were waaaaaaay more than that so were shot down but if they'd kept it realistic?
If it meant a chance to put their house in order (read: crack down on the Communists and ensure the warlords are put in line), the KMT would have probably accepted it.
 
It was mission creep, once the Japanese set foot in Manchuria China wanted it back and the Japanese knew that if China ever got its shit together it could potentially take it back. Then the Japanese invade China and China fights on and digs in. So the goal posts shift from protecting Manchuria to breaking China. Then the other WW2 starts and the posts shift again, all of a sudden Japan is at war with America and the desperation goes from breaking China to destroying it forever and seizing everything of value and burning the rest.
 
I expect, had they subdued the Kuomintang, Japan would divide China up into various puppet states (see: Manchukuo and Mengjiang). I read that they intended to attach Hong Kong, Macau and Hainan to Taiwan. There might have been something about annexing the Shandong Peninsular to Japan as well. Perhaps Japan could use the various Chinese dialects as a basis for establishing new ethnic identities? Cantonese and so forth.
 
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