Dick Cheney Arrested WI

I'm not in any way fan of Cheney or the Bush Administration (or Obama for that matter), but this would be the height of folly for Canada. If by "war crimes" we are referring to the invasion of Iraq, the evidence for NBC weapons was supported by intelligence agencies in Britain, France, and Isreal at the least. Furthermore Iraqi officials themselves were saying that Saddam was still attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. If this is brought to the courts then a lot of very high ranking officials get muddied and Canada becomes very unpopular very quickly.

If by "war crimes" we are instead referring to rendition & torture than even more nations are complicit; including but not at all limited to...Germany, Poland, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, the ex-Soviet Stans, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (heck, pretty much every Arab Gulf state...including by some claims, Iran), Australia, and possibly Russia and China. Given that some officials in Canada also knew about this program and lent assistance it will not end well for Canada. Canada will become isolated and mistrusted throughout the globe. Arresting Cheney, and Bush and Obama may be the morally right things to do, but it would have some very nasty political fall out for all involved.

Benjamin
First bit: Dead wrong. Canada knew at the time that the WMD claim was false. The uranium claim was proven false within 24 hours. Ask the former UN Ambassador.
http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/why-canada-said-no-to-the-iraq-war/
(That doesn't count the reports from UNSCOM, IAEA and Iraqi sources...or Hussein Kamil's defection.)
Second bit: Overlooked by most, but true.
 
Bloodbath? You realize he'd effectively be condemning himself in the eyes of the world if his bodyguards shot up RCMP officers sent to arrest him right?

Uh, actually no. If it came down to it, the United States Secret Service would absolutely shoot up the RCMP, or anyone else, if they tried to kidnap (which is what an "arrest" would be) their subject. That's their job, and they're really good at it. I really don't think the RCMP would have much of a chance against the Secret Service, unless the deployed overwhelming force - in which case they would literally start a war. A war which would be utterly justifiable.
 
First bit: Dead wrong. Canada knew at the time that the WMD claim was false. The uranium claim was proven false within 24 hours. Ask the former UN Ambassador.
http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/why-canada-said-no-to-the-iraq-war/
(That doesn't count the reports from UNSCOM, IAEA and Iraqi sources...or Hussein Kamil's defection.)
Second bit: Overlooked by most, but true.

To the first, what nation put more troops into Iraq all of the members of the 'Coalition of the Willing" save the US, the UK and Australia? Said nation officially declined to participate in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Said nation also greatly increased the number of soldier it had deployed to Afghanistan, thus allowing the US to withdraw a proportionate number from that theatre for use in Iraq.

To the second, who was Prime Minister of Canada at the time? There were two, and Stephen Harper wasn't one of them.
 
First bit: Dead wrong. Canada knew at the time that the WMD claim was false. The uranium claim was proven false within 24 hours. Ask the former UN Ambassador.
http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/why-canada-said-no-to-the-iraq-war/
(That doesn't count the reports from UNSCOM, IAEA and Iraqi sources...or Hussein Kamil's defection.)
Second bit: Overlooked by most, but true.

In hind sight you're totally correct. But there was enough ambiguity and circumstantial evidence coming from third party sources that many nations shared responsibility for a major intelligence failure. I'm not saying that Bush, et al, didn't manufacture a war knowing at least to a large degree that the claims were spurious. This they did. On the other hand many nations assisted in making the case for war, perhaps knowingly, for various reasons. Furthermore, I believe that the US government and allies went into Iraq truly believing that WMDs would be discovered. If not they would have used a different excuse so as to not look like total idiots (as was the actual outcome). The lack of WMDs came as a surprise to everyone. And not to support crazy pro-Bush conspiracies, but there is some evidence that remaining stockpiles were moved to Syria and Iran in the days leading up to and immediately after the invasion.

My point is that arresting Cheney would open a huge can of worms that gets really slimy not just for the Bush administration, but also for Britain, France and other allies.

Benjamin
 
I'm intrigued enough by the crazy nature of this scenario to comment, something I have avoided doing for reasons that have nothing to do here.

I cannot see Mr. Harper doing this or tolerating some lower level official who did. My knowledge of Canadian politics is scetchy enough to not know whether there would be any Canadian government, even an NDP one, that would pull such a stunt.

But let us suppose one did, for whatever reason, in 2011 and somehow Cheney was not coughed up immediately. We will also presume that the arrest of Cheney does not spark a shoot out with his security (which I think is Secret Service.)

While this act is a violation of international law and is in fact an act of war, I don't see Obama going to war right away. I suspect there would be a strongly worded statement, followed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton being sent to Ottawa to demand Cheney's release.

The effect, however, on the 2012 elections cannot be overstated. No matter what Obama does, short of war, if it does not gain the immedidate release of Cheney will be seen by a great number of Americans as inadequate. Talk radio and cable news would thunder about Canadian perfidy and Obama's "appeasement" of our now enemy to the north. Cheney, who has his enemies, will suddenly find himself a sympathetic character.

If the matter is not resolved quickly, it becomes a campaign issue. Obama would be forced to initiate diplomatic and economic sanctions. A popular boycott of Canadian goods would be automatic. And I would not want to be a member of a Canadian sports team playing in the states in this situation.

Popular opinion would demand nothing less than the immediate release of Cheney and the handing over of everyone responsable for his "being taken hostage" (which would be the phrase used.)

Finally I could see this matter ending the Obama presidency. Of course, maybe SEAL Team 6 is diverted from the kill Bin Laden operationt to a rescue Cheney operation. That has perils of its own, of course.

All of this is rather silly, of course, as it depends on a Canadian government behaving supremely irrationally. But that doesn't make it less fun to think about.
 
If it does go to court, I think the US will do more than hire the best possible defense team. The CIA could be ordered to sabotage the prosecution any way possible. For example, witnesses flown in from Iraq to testify will suddenly die (or be deterred from speaking due to threats), documents belonging to prosecutors will disappear, and maybe even the prosecutors themselves will become victims of intimidation or assassination.
 
Why would Cheney have personal security while ex-veeps such as Quayle and Gore do not and take care of themselves??
 
Why would Cheney have personal security while ex-veeps such as Quayle and Gore do not and take care of themselves??

You're allowed to waive it you know.

Some people prepare not to have the Secret Service stand outside every time they have to use a public restroom :p
 
You're allowed to waive it you know.

Some people prepare not to have the Secret Service stand outside every time they have to use a public restroom :p

On that note, what would America's response be if Canada arrested Dan Quayle? :p
 
The most problematic scenario along these lines would be if the Canadians had evidence that Cheney participated in the rendition and subsequent torture of a Canadian citizen, especially if it involved matters not generally known to the American public but for which the Canadians had hard and clear evidence.

In such a case, Canada might actually have a legal leg to stand on that could be very problematic for the American government in determining how to respond.

My own position on this is that the entire invasion of Iraq constitued waging aggressive war and that the whole lot of those who participated in planning it are technically guilty of a war crime. Whether prosecuting the matter as such is a prudent exercise or not is debatable, but that's my personal opinion.

For the record, as a former Vice President, Cheney holds no special status. He has no diplomatic standing and is as accountable under Canadian law as any other American citizen traveling in Canada. That's why I picked the rendition example; it's the kind of issue which could be a criminal act under Canadian law and subject to the jurisdiction of the Canadian courts and avoids the messy issue of who tries a case where the violation is one of international rather than national law.
 
.....So my question is this. What would have happened if upon landing in Canada RCMP officers and probably a Government Official or two, arrested Dick Cheney for War Crimes?


Oh. That's easy.

After half a minute or so, I change my underwear.

Then about half an hour later, when I read about it again, half a minute will pass, and I change my underwear again.

I then climb onto the roof of my home.

Everyone who is also on the roof of their home singing "O Canada!" at the top of their lungs is my friend.
 
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Oh. That's easy.

After half a minute or so, I change my underwear.

Then about half an hour later, when I read about it again, half a minute will pass, and I change my underwear again.

I then climb onto the roof of my home.

Everyone who is also on the roof of their home singing "O Canada!" at the top of their lungs is my friend.

So, what would be your reaction to the news of Mr. Cheney's release, the Canadian Prime Minister's formal, public apology, and the firing and subsequent arrest of the crown attorney(s) or bureaucrat(s) who thought that detaining Mr. Cheney was a good idea? What happens when a fantasy fulfilled gets smacked in the face by reality?
 
How about a straightforward class-action lawsuit?

How many Iraqis dead from that utterly optional war?

That's a lot of families...
 
So, what would be your reaction to the news of Mr. Cheney's release, the Canadian Prime Minister's formal, public apology, and the firing and subsequent arrest of the crown attorney(s) or bureaucrat(s) who thought that detaining Mr. Cheney was a good idea? What happens when a fantasy fulfilled gets smacked in the face by reality?


I would be... sad?
 
i think cheney would be getting a phone call just like pinochet did in britain just before he was to be arrested......might be smart if you left early dick.:cool::cool:
 
Having Dick Cheney arrested for reckless driving or vehicular homicide in 1962, and continues down that path, it's likely he never gets married to Lynne and ends up being a line mender in Wyoming. That should keep him out of office.
 
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