Development of American football had the sport continued padless?

If instead of the mandating of helmets in the 1920's to help improve the safety and image of the game, it was decided to keep the game helmet-less like Rugby.

How do you think the game would have developed from there? The irony of course is that the decision to go with hard helmets actually makes the current game more dangerous for things such as CTE.
 
. . . it was decided to keep the game helmet-less like Rugby. . .
The “arms race” of players getting both bigger and faster still happens. Most probably, tackling becomes very specific like in rugby that it must be from behind.

but . . .

if this is the rule/norm for tackling, you can’t have goal line stands in which getting in means everything and not getting in means nothing. Maybe something like fantasy football in which runs are scored according to their length. Or, another radical way to re-conceptualize what could be the fluid flow of the game, in which it is both like and unlike rugby and constitutes a true different branch.
 

Ian_W

Banned
If instead of the mandating of helmets in the 1920's to help improve the safety and image of the game, it was decided to keep the game helmet-less like Rugby.

How do you think the game would have developed from there? The irony of course is that the decision to go with hard helmets actually makes the current game more dangerous for things such as CTE.

You can fix 75% of the CTE problems in gridiron by losing the helmets and making intentional head contact a 15 yard penalty with loss of down.

Look at some rugby league for what it would look like.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
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Probably winds up getting banned nationwide and replaced by Rugby.

Gridiron football came justhtingclose to getting abolished in 1904-05. The game as it was played in the era was brutal beyond words. Players died as a matter of routine (~20 were killed at the college level in 1905), and Teddy was ready to put an end to things, especially after Teddy Jr. (yes, the later General who commanded at Utah Beach and received the MoH) got steamrolled his first practice at Harvard.
 
Probably winds up getting banned nationwide and replaced by Rugby.

Gridiron football came justhtingclose to getting abolished in 1904-05. The game as it was played in the era was brutal beyond words. Players died as a matter of routine (~20 were killed at the college level in 1905), and Teddy was ready to put an end to things, especially after Teddy Jr. (yes, the later General who commanded at Utah Beach and received the MoH) got steamrolled his first practice at Harvard.
I would argue it before hand but now I have to agree. The sport of American Football was more violent then rugby at the time. If they didn't add padding or helmets, the sport would be banned.

Other sports would take it place like rugby (for me rugby league would work as a American Football alternative then Union) , lacrosse, basketball and hockey. Baseball will still be king but there will be a huge gap to fill with American Football out of the way.
 
The “arms race” of players getting both bigger and faster still happens. Most probably, tackling becomes very specific like in rugby that it must be from behind
Huh? Rugby absolutely had a front tackle. Hell, about half of Rugby tackes are currently a penalty in the NFL (as Richard Sherman has pointed out angrily on many occasions).

I think blocking becomes more restricted. In Rugby, its essentially banned. And since its blocking rather than hard tackles which cause most CTE..
 

Ian_W

Banned
I would argue it before hand but now I have to agree. The sport of American Football was more violent then rugby at the time. If they didn't add padding or helmets, the sport would be banned.

Other sports would take it place like rugby (for me rugby league would work as a American Football alternative then Union) , lacrosse, basketball and hockey. Baseball will still be king but there will be a huge gap to fill with American Football out of the way.

Nahh, I simply don't agree with post-Roosevelt reforms gridiron of the 1920s being more dangerous than the rugby codes - remember that the breach between Rugby League and Rugby Union happened because of players wanting to be compensated for Broken Time ... which was the need for players to take time off from work because they got injured playing rugby.

The Roosvelt reforms to gridiron made it a safer game by creating more open plays because of forward passing and fewer mauls because of banning linking arms and so on.

Without the ability to use the head as a weapon that helmets give, helmet-free Gridiron is an even less dangerous version of the same game.

You dont need to lead with the head on either defense or offense - it is simply bad technique that restricts being able to see opportunities. Heck, look at the absolutely explicit adoption of rugby tackling by the current Seattle Seahawks team (*), which arguably has had several of the bets ever NFL defenses. And as far as putting your head down with he ball, look at any of the great running backs and you'll see they don't do it.

As Jack Gibson said when describing the differences between League and Gridiron ... 'Same game, different rules'.

(*)
- note the film in this taken from Union and League.
 
Probably winds up getting banned nationwide and replaced by Rugby.

Gridiron football came justhtingclose to getting abolished in 1904-05. The game as it was played in the era was brutal beyond words. Players died as a matter of routine (~20 were killed at the college level in 1905), and Teddy was ready to put an end to things, especially after Teddy Jr. (yes, the later General who commanded at Utah Beach and received the MoH) got steamrolled his first practice at Harvard.
Interesting. So what would be the most likely knockon effects of rugby replacing gridiron football? More anglophilia in the wider culture, maybe?
 

Ian_W

Banned
Interesting. So what would be the most likely knockon effects of rugby replacing gridiron football? More anglophilia in the wider culture, maybe?

Nahh. Calbear has simply ignored the POD of mandating helmets in the 1920s - the point for the US had the opportunity to switch over to rugby was in around 1905, when several California universities actually did so.

After Roosvelt's reforms got accepted in 1906 - and if Teddy Roosvelt tells you your sport is too dangerous, then your sport is too dangerous - then gridiron is a contact sport, in an era where it was just accepted that people would get hurt playing sport.

Either way, US sport is going to be impacted by amateurism, the shamateurism of the NCAA and outright professionalism. If the US had a viable rugby competition between 1905 and 1925, it's an interesting question how post-college players would interact with the requirements for amateurism of rugby union.
 

Bluesock

Banned
Nahh. Calbear has simply ignored the POD of mandating helmets in the 1920s - the point for the US had the opportunity to switch over to rugby was in around 1905, when several California universities actually did so.

After Roosvelt's reforms got accepted in 1906 - and if Teddy Roosvelt tells you your sport is too dangerous, then your sport is too dangerous - then gridiron is a contact sport, in an era where it was just accepted that people would get hurt playing sport.

Either way, US sport is going to be impacted by amateurism, the shamateurism of the NCAA and outright professionalism. If the US had a viable rugby competition between 1905 and 1925, it's an interesting question how post-college players would interact with the requirements for amateurism of rugby union.
Hmm, the French were kicked out of the 5 nations due Shameterism before ww2, many players switched over to league as a result, however the Vichy government banned league and gave all their assets to Union and it led to many french players returning to Union. Hmm, the US might face similar accusations, perhaps the Fench and Americans could break away from Union and form an alternative non anglophile dominated rugby board. Same rules as Union but like League embraces proffesionalism and encompasses all the major non commonwealth rugby nations, such as Argentina, Japan and most of the European Nations in FIRA.
Many top players from New Zealand, Australia and South Africa would switch to the proffesional us league. We could see rugby becoming fully proffesinal by the 60's and 80's
 
Huh? Rugby absolutely had a front tackle. Hell, about half of Rugby tackes are currently a penalty in the NFL (as Richard Sherman has pointed out angrily on many occasions).
Thank you.

I had in mind that I’m running, player dives from behind, gets arms around my waist, slides down to upper legs and thereby makes the tackle.

Did not know there were other legal tackles. Thanks for correcting me on this point.
 
. . . And since its blocking rather than hard tackles which cause most CTE..
Not so sure about this part.

Where I’m currently at is that it’s both concussions + large number of lesser blows.

* when parents and fans only focus on “concussion management,” it’s not helping us find real solutions.
 
If instead of the mandating of helmets in the 1920's to help improve the safety and image of the game, it was decided to keep the game helmet-less like Rugby.
Helmets weren't compulsory in the NFL until the 1939 season. Bill Hewitt never wore one until that season, his last.

Hewitt.jpg

Here's Hewitt giving a lateral to Bears end Bill Kerr, for the winning TD against the Giants on 17/12/33, the first ever planned Divisional Championship game to decide the title. Note the empty stands - only 26000 turned up at Wrigley.
 
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