Even if Norway falls, the Kreigsmarine will be much worse off ITTL. This will reduce the ability of the Germans to maintain a fleet in being that would tie down British assets that could be used elsewhere. It was mentioned that the light cruiser Emden has run aground. Did she work herself free and retreat, or is she still stuck? If the latter, she's a sitting duck.
Det som går ned må komme opp-An Alternate Royal Norwegian Navy TL
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Especially since the RN has a decent carrier fleet(less one HMS Courageous, let's hope Glorious survives do to the changes in the timeline)that can move in at night launch at first light and run like heck once the strike is recovered.
Personally if its properly stuck its far better that RAF bombers do it as they might learn something the first time they try and do so in an environment they live to come back a second and third time to get it done?
Alas getting bomber command to hit the right country in 1940 was a dicey proposal so Skuas are needed
At night yes, in daylight they could probably manage (even if they have to fly up and down the coast to find it for a hours first) so long as the LW cant keep a CAP over it.
Unlike the attacks on OTL ships early on in German ports its going to be very hard for LW still operating mostly from Denmark to interfere and without them its just a handful of (potentially unpowered/damaged) AA guns to defend the none moving ship.
I think its better to keep the Skuas for CAS and attacking ships that are still moving and use Wellington's, Blenheim's, Whitley's and Hampden's that cant do much else? (apart from laying mines but this is 1940 RAF so attacking a stranded ship will come first, and with hindsight they could also suppress the Norwegian airfield captured...)
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Emden is beached in Oslofjord, so bombing her is harder. Don't worry, she'll be in at least one more chapter
formion
Banned
Any german damaged ships that need to return to Germany or german convoys that need to reach norwegian ports face another danger, submarines. Every destroyer not in the yard was utilized for Narvic and Trondheim. The actuall escort duty fell on R class minesweepers and torpedo boats. ITTL both types have had already significant losses, leaving less escorts available. I expect british, french and polish submarines to have an easier time and sink a few ships.
And the allied subs will almost certainly suffer fewer losses...and possibly put a metal fish or three into the pride of Germany
This should be within Welington (as sent agaisnt German ports in 39) range with a reasonable bomb load and agaisnt a stationary ships without much defences (only 3x88mm) I cant see her surviving as without radar/local airbases the LW cant keep a CAP over her?
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Driftless
Donor
Where the Emden is beached is close to both Norwegian coastal forts (sort of) and some Norwegian civilians, so some care is needed to not damage a newly started alliance - literal and metaphoric damage that is.
On the other hand (there's always another hand...), both Norway and the British, at this point, need to carefully assess the best use for limited resources in the next day or two. Norway's defense resources are very finite, so they probably don't want to waste them finishing off a ship that's out of the fight for a while. The British want to finish off a wounded ship, but they're also struggling to get the appropriate weapons into the fight across a wide theater, and they're starting out after the Germans have seized the initiative.
A challenging problem
On the other hand (there's always another hand...), both Norway and the British, at this point, need to carefully assess the best use for limited resources in the next day or two. Norway's defense resources are very finite, so they probably don't want to waste them finishing off a ship that's out of the fight for a while. The British want to finish off a wounded ship, but they're also struggling to get the appropriate weapons into the fight across a wide theater, and they're starting out after the Germans have seized the initiative.
A challenging problem
Chapter XXIII
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Chapter XXIII: Trondheim
Trondheim was protected by three old forts; Brettingen, the furthest forward, was armed with a pair of 21cm guns and three 15cm weapons. Hysnes on the north shore, and Hambåra on the south shore, were across the fjord from each other, closer to Trondheim. Hysnes was armed with two 21cm guns and two 15cm, while Hambåra was equipped with a pair of 15cm and a battery of 50cm torpedoes. When fully manned, these forts made taking Trondheim very difficult, but on 9 April 1940, they weren’t fully manned. The two northern fortresses had barely enough men to operate their guns, while reserves were just arriving at Hambåra, with one of the 15cm guns operational, though the ability of the crew of mostly reservists to operate the weapon at its full capability was doubtful. In Trondheim itself were the minelayer Froya, the two old B class submarines, of which only B1 was crewed, eight MTB’s, and two subchasers. A squadron each of Gladiators, Hs 123’s, and N-3PB’s was also based in Trondheim.
Communication between KommandørKaptein Bergersen, who was in charge of the Naval units in Trondheim, and Oberstløytenant Jacobsen, who was in charge of the coastal artillery, was minimal, and the two men disliked each other. Reports of German activity in the Skagerrak, along with the sinking of a troopship off Bergen, had been passed on to Bergersen, but he was convinced the danger was more in southern Norway, and Trondheim wouldn’t be attacked. The current priority for Naval forces in Trondheim was to monitor British minelaying, which was usually done by the Navy’s floatplanes, while Froya and the subchasers occasionally went to sea. No minefields had been laid, mainly because Bergersen didn’t believe that there was any threat to Trondheim, and this would be a crucial mistake, along with the failure to have the coastal artillery fully operational.
At 00:56, reports of Oslo being under attack were received, and watches were increased in strength at the coastal batteries, while extra ammunition was hauled from the magazines to the guns in response to the warning. Soon, the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper, along with the destroyers Z5, Z6, Z8, and Z16 entered the Leads, and were challenged by the patrolling Fosen at 02:53. Despite the answer of ‘HMS Revenge, ordered by government to proceed to Trondheim, no unfriendly intentions,’ a warning of hostile ships was sent to the coastal forts. The commander, Jacobsen, who was at his house, not his headquarters, was notified, but by the time he could make a decision and instruct his guns, the attack was underway. Hipper led her four destroyers into the entrance of Trondheimsfjorden, and the commander of each fortress, still waiting for Jacobsen’s reply, had to make up his own mind.
Major Schlytter at Brettingen, with only one 15cm battery fully manned in the middle of the night, didn’t fire, and even if he had, the single gun would have doubtfully made a difference. At Hambåra, the freshly arrived reservists waited for instructions to fire, and not receiving them, kept their guns silent. But at Hysnes, Kaptein Lange, who had urged fully manning all guns when reports of attacks to the south had been received, had his crew running to the guns as soon as the warning was received from Fosen. When Hipper led her destroyers past, Hysnes fortress was the only one of the three Norwegian positions to fire. Kapitan Heye, commander of Hipper and the whole Naval force, was standing on his bridge when he heard the two 21cm guns roar, followed seconds later by a pair of 15cm flashes. At point blank range, the gunners, though having been awake for just minutes, scored hits. Hipper, missing a forty foot chunk of her belt, along with a torpedo mount from the collision with HMS Glowworm, was hit by one 21cm shell, as well as a 15cm projectile. The 15cm shell wrecked the Arado on Hipper’s catapult, and just like on her sister cruiser Blucher, started a fire, though the crew was able to bring this one under control. The 21cm shell hit the deck near the fore 10.5cm gun, penetrating the armor and exploding underneath the conning tower. Hipper, running at high speed, managed to get by before the lightly manned guns could be reloaded, but Z8, bringing up the rear, was targeted by the 15cm guns, which had managed to reload. The two 15cm shells detonated, the first on the fore torpedo mount, destroying it though not exploding the torpedoes, and the second hitting between the aft two 12.8cm mounts, killing their crews and damaging the two guns.
The ships in Trondheim frantically began to attempt to get underway when reports of ships nearing the city were received, while two of the N-3PB floatplanes that had been warming up for a dawn patrol took off to monitor the situation and report movements to the Navy and Army headquarters. By the time the Germans arrived, the minelayer Froya, armed with four 10.2cm guns, though only three could be brought to bear on a broadside, was slipping her moorings, as were two MTB’s. However, the commanders of the different ships had different ideas; Kaptein Schrøder-Nielsen was taking his minelayer away from the German vessels, which he narrowly avoided. Recognizing that his ship was not capable of doing significant damage to the German warships now entering the fjord, though the decision may have been different had the two 45cm torpedo tubes Froya was built with not been removed for additional mine capacity, he decided to use her in her intended role as a minelayer. Near the island of Tautra, 120 of the 160 mines aboard Froya went overboard as the ship blockaded herself in the eastern end of Trondheimsfjorden.
The two MTB’s that made an attack run on Hipper and the destroyers were MTB-32 and MTB-36, and they were up to over thirty knots when they launched their torpedoes at Hipper, which had turned to port as she entered the main fjord, exposing her damaged starboard side. Kapitan Heye immediately ordered evasive action, evading two of the torpedoes, but one from each boat hit the Admiral Hipper close together. The torpedo from MTB-36 hit the ship near Anton turret, and did little damage, as it was a 45cm torpedo impacting a non-vital part of the ship, but the torpedo from MTB-32 hit exactly where Glowworm had sheared Hipper’s side off, doing heavy damage to the cruiser. The pair of daring boats then made a run to Tautra, where Froya waited for them before closing the straits on either side of the island completely with her minefield.
In Trondheim, the rest of the ships were now at the mercy of the attacking Germans. The four destroyers raced to the harbor to prevent further vessels from attacking the wounded Hipper. Both subchasers were captured, as were the unmanned B2 and two MTB’s, while B1’s crew got her moving and attempted to submerge, but the sub was rammed by Z16 with heavy casualties before she could completely dive. The crew of the stationary MTB-33 launched a torpedo from her outboard tube that smashed into the damaged Z8 prior to their vessel being destroyed by gunfire from Z5, as were three other MTB’s. Two additional floatplanes got in the air, four were destroyed, and four were captured.
The damage to Hipper, particularly from MTB-32’s torpedo, put the cruiser in danger of sinking. Kapitan Heye brought his ship alongside Trondheim’s waterfront, docking her on the port side, ordering the Army troops to go ashore and the three operational destroyers to capture the coastal batteries before turning to his ship. All available personnel were doing damage control either on the huge hole in the ship’s side, putting out the shrinking fire on the catapult, or controlling flooding from the forward torpedo hit. Only Anton and Dora turrets were manned, along with half of the AA armament and the aft starboard torpedo mount.
Z8’s men tasked with taking the coastal batteries were transferred to Z16, as Z8, which had taken the torpedo between her own torpedo mounts, had other things to do. The three operational destroyers then landed their Army units behind the coastal guns, which would then serve to protect the town from British attempts to retake it.
Kaptein Lunge, in command of Hysnes battery, the only one to fire on the German vessels, anticipated an attempt to capture his command, and sent some forty men six AA machine guns along with handguns, backed up by the fort’s two 4cm Bofors, to meet any attempt to capture Hysnes. Despite Jacobsen’s orders to return to Hysnes, Lunge and his men stayed in their positions, holding off German Jäegers for over five hours before they ran out of ammunition and surrendered, though not before setting off shells in the guns meant to fire them. Jacobsen surrendered his fortresses soon after.
The Army units in Trondheim had no plans to surrender, however. Generalmajor Laurantzon, commander of the 12th Infantry Regiment, recognized that defending Trondheim with enemy warships controlling the fjord would require a much larger force than his regiment, not even at full strength yet, and he moved his headquarters to Levanger, with most of his men defending a line near Asen. Being near the sea, the Army Air Service base at Værnes was vulnerable to shelling, as well as being outside the Army’s line of defense, and the 12 Gladiators, and 12 Hs 123’s based there, along with as much aviation fuel and supplies as could be moved before the Germans arrived, were transferred to the dirt airstrip near Skogn village, where operations could temporarily continue. The four Navy floatplanes that had watched the whole thing from above joined the defense. The decision by Kaptein Schrøder-Nielsen to lay his minefield and pull his ship back secured the sea flank of the Army for the time being, while the two MTB’s could make an attempt to land troops once the minefield was breached very costly. Froya’s 10.2cm guns gave the Norwegians mobile fire support.
Two dozen German He 115 seaplanes landed in Trondheimsfjorden later that day, giving the Germans air support, though the presence of the Norwegian aircraft in Skogn kept the Germans from achieving air superiority. Hipper was in no condition to leave Trondheim as planned, and neither was Z8, but Z5 and Z6 were sent south using fuel from Hipper and Z8, while Z16 remained behind to give the Army fire support against the Norwegians. All but one of the five merchantmen that were supposed to bring fuel and supplies never arrived, and the ship that did arrive, Levante, was three days late. The situation for the invaders would soon become tenuous if supplies were not brought soon, but bringing in supplies by air from Stavanger was a 350+ mile flight, likely to encounter fighters at the end when the aircraft were low on fuel. A naval expedition would be equally difficult, with the Norwegian forces in Bergen and the possibility of being intercepted by the British going against any ships attempting to make the voyage. Still, something had to be done.
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Chapter XXIII: Trondheim
Trondheim was protected by three old forts; Brettingen, the furthest forward, was armed with a pair of 21cm guns and three 15cm weapons. Hysnes on the north shore, and Hambåra on the south shore, were across the fjord from each other, closer to Trondheim. Hysnes was armed with two 21cm guns and two 15cm, while Hambåra was equipped with a pair of 15cm and a battery of 50cm torpedoes. When fully manned, these forts made taking Trondheim very difficult, but on 9 April 1940, they weren’t fully manned. The two northern fortresses had barely enough men to operate their guns, while reserves were just arriving at Hambåra, with one of the 15cm guns operational, though the ability of the crew of mostly reservists to operate the weapon at its full capability was doubtful. In Trondheim itself were the minelayer Froya, the two old B class submarines, of which only B1 was crewed, eight MTB’s, and two subchasers. A squadron each of Gladiators, Hs 123’s, and N-3PB’s was also based in Trondheim.
Communication between KommandørKaptein Bergersen, who was in charge of the Naval units in Trondheim, and Oberstløytenant Jacobsen, who was in charge of the coastal artillery, was minimal, and the two men disliked each other. Reports of German activity in the Skagerrak, along with the sinking of a troopship off Bergen, had been passed on to Bergersen, but he was convinced the danger was more in southern Norway, and Trondheim wouldn’t be attacked. The current priority for Naval forces in Trondheim was to monitor British minelaying, which was usually done by the Navy’s floatplanes, while Froya and the subchasers occasionally went to sea. No minefields had been laid, mainly because Bergersen didn’t believe that there was any threat to Trondheim, and this would be a crucial mistake, along with the failure to have the coastal artillery fully operational.
At 00:56, reports of Oslo being under attack were received, and watches were increased in strength at the coastal batteries, while extra ammunition was hauled from the magazines to the guns in response to the warning. Soon, the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper, along with the destroyers Z5, Z6, Z8, and Z16 entered the Leads, and were challenged by the patrolling Fosen at 02:53. Despite the answer of ‘HMS Revenge, ordered by government to proceed to Trondheim, no unfriendly intentions,’ a warning of hostile ships was sent to the coastal forts. The commander, Jacobsen, who was at his house, not his headquarters, was notified, but by the time he could make a decision and instruct his guns, the attack was underway. Hipper led her four destroyers into the entrance of Trondheimsfjorden, and the commander of each fortress, still waiting for Jacobsen’s reply, had to make up his own mind.
Major Schlytter at Brettingen, with only one 15cm battery fully manned in the middle of the night, didn’t fire, and even if he had, the single gun would have doubtfully made a difference. At Hambåra, the freshly arrived reservists waited for instructions to fire, and not receiving them, kept their guns silent. But at Hysnes, Kaptein Lange, who had urged fully manning all guns when reports of attacks to the south had been received, had his crew running to the guns as soon as the warning was received from Fosen. When Hipper led her destroyers past, Hysnes fortress was the only one of the three Norwegian positions to fire. Kapitan Heye, commander of Hipper and the whole Naval force, was standing on his bridge when he heard the two 21cm guns roar, followed seconds later by a pair of 15cm flashes. At point blank range, the gunners, though having been awake for just minutes, scored hits. Hipper, missing a forty foot chunk of her belt, along with a torpedo mount from the collision with HMS Glowworm, was hit by one 21cm shell, as well as a 15cm projectile. The 15cm shell wrecked the Arado on Hipper’s catapult, and just like on her sister cruiser Blucher, started a fire, though the crew was able to bring this one under control. The 21cm shell hit the deck near the fore 10.5cm gun, penetrating the armor and exploding underneath the conning tower. Hipper, running at high speed, managed to get by before the lightly manned guns could be reloaded, but Z8, bringing up the rear, was targeted by the 15cm guns, which had managed to reload. The two 15cm shells detonated, the first on the fore torpedo mount, destroying it though not exploding the torpedoes, and the second hitting between the aft two 12.8cm mounts, killing their crews and damaging the two guns.
The ships in Trondheim frantically began to attempt to get underway when reports of ships nearing the city were received, while two of the N-3PB floatplanes that had been warming up for a dawn patrol took off to monitor the situation and report movements to the Navy and Army headquarters. By the time the Germans arrived, the minelayer Froya, armed with four 10.2cm guns, though only three could be brought to bear on a broadside, was slipping her moorings, as were two MTB’s. However, the commanders of the different ships had different ideas; Kaptein Schrøder-Nielsen was taking his minelayer away from the German vessels, which he narrowly avoided. Recognizing that his ship was not capable of doing significant damage to the German warships now entering the fjord, though the decision may have been different had the two 45cm torpedo tubes Froya was built with not been removed for additional mine capacity, he decided to use her in her intended role as a minelayer. Near the island of Tautra, 120 of the 160 mines aboard Froya went overboard as the ship blockaded herself in the eastern end of Trondheimsfjorden.
The two MTB’s that made an attack run on Hipper and the destroyers were MTB-32 and MTB-36, and they were up to over thirty knots when they launched their torpedoes at Hipper, which had turned to port as she entered the main fjord, exposing her damaged starboard side. Kapitan Heye immediately ordered evasive action, evading two of the torpedoes, but one from each boat hit the Admiral Hipper close together. The torpedo from MTB-36 hit the ship near Anton turret, and did little damage, as it was a 45cm torpedo impacting a non-vital part of the ship, but the torpedo from MTB-32 hit exactly where Glowworm had sheared Hipper’s side off, doing heavy damage to the cruiser. The pair of daring boats then made a run to Tautra, where Froya waited for them before closing the straits on either side of the island completely with her minefield.
In Trondheim, the rest of the ships were now at the mercy of the attacking Germans. The four destroyers raced to the harbor to prevent further vessels from attacking the wounded Hipper. Both subchasers were captured, as were the unmanned B2 and two MTB’s, while B1’s crew got her moving and attempted to submerge, but the sub was rammed by Z16 with heavy casualties before she could completely dive. The crew of the stationary MTB-33 launched a torpedo from her outboard tube that smashed into the damaged Z8 prior to their vessel being destroyed by gunfire from Z5, as were three other MTB’s. Two additional floatplanes got in the air, four were destroyed, and four were captured.
The damage to Hipper, particularly from MTB-32’s torpedo, put the cruiser in danger of sinking. Kapitan Heye brought his ship alongside Trondheim’s waterfront, docking her on the port side, ordering the Army troops to go ashore and the three operational destroyers to capture the coastal batteries before turning to his ship. All available personnel were doing damage control either on the huge hole in the ship’s side, putting out the shrinking fire on the catapult, or controlling flooding from the forward torpedo hit. Only Anton and Dora turrets were manned, along with half of the AA armament and the aft starboard torpedo mount.
Z8’s men tasked with taking the coastal batteries were transferred to Z16, as Z8, which had taken the torpedo between her own torpedo mounts, had other things to do. The three operational destroyers then landed their Army units behind the coastal guns, which would then serve to protect the town from British attempts to retake it.
Kaptein Lunge, in command of Hysnes battery, the only one to fire on the German vessels, anticipated an attempt to capture his command, and sent some forty men six AA machine guns along with handguns, backed up by the fort’s two 4cm Bofors, to meet any attempt to capture Hysnes. Despite Jacobsen’s orders to return to Hysnes, Lunge and his men stayed in their positions, holding off German Jäegers for over five hours before they ran out of ammunition and surrendered, though not before setting off shells in the guns meant to fire them. Jacobsen surrendered his fortresses soon after.
The Army units in Trondheim had no plans to surrender, however. Generalmajor Laurantzon, commander of the 12th Infantry Regiment, recognized that defending Trondheim with enemy warships controlling the fjord would require a much larger force than his regiment, not even at full strength yet, and he moved his headquarters to Levanger, with most of his men defending a line near Asen. Being near the sea, the Army Air Service base at Værnes was vulnerable to shelling, as well as being outside the Army’s line of defense, and the 12 Gladiators, and 12 Hs 123’s based there, along with as much aviation fuel and supplies as could be moved before the Germans arrived, were transferred to the dirt airstrip near Skogn village, where operations could temporarily continue. The four Navy floatplanes that had watched the whole thing from above joined the defense. The decision by Kaptein Schrøder-Nielsen to lay his minefield and pull his ship back secured the sea flank of the Army for the time being, while the two MTB’s could make an attempt to land troops once the minefield was breached very costly. Froya’s 10.2cm guns gave the Norwegians mobile fire support.
Two dozen German He 115 seaplanes landed in Trondheimsfjorden later that day, giving the Germans air support, though the presence of the Norwegian aircraft in Skogn kept the Germans from achieving air superiority. Hipper was in no condition to leave Trondheim as planned, and neither was Z8, but Z5 and Z6 were sent south using fuel from Hipper and Z8, while Z16 remained behind to give the Army fire support against the Norwegians. All but one of the five merchantmen that were supposed to bring fuel and supplies never arrived, and the ship that did arrive, Levante, was three days late. The situation for the invaders would soon become tenuous if supplies were not brought soon, but bringing in supplies by air from Stavanger was a 350+ mile flight, likely to encounter fighters at the end when the aircraft were low on fuel. A naval expedition would be equally difficult, with the Norwegian forces in Bergen and the possibility of being intercepted by the British going against any ships attempting to make the voyage. Still, something had to be done.
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The German navy is getting their nose bloodied. Even if they successfully complete the invasion, they will be in no condition to challenge the Royal Navy.
Driftless
Donor
ITTL, the Germans will have an interesting dilemma, on how to safely return some of these badly damaged ships back to the Fatherland for big repair. Both cruisers, destroyers, and others have racked up some pretty significant hull hits, so there may be a shortage of ships to serve as capable escort. They may need to have Norway secured before that return trip is run.
Of course, there likely some additional fights to come and we don't know the outcome of them yet.
Of course, there likely some additional fights to come and we don't know the outcome of them yet.
Hipper is, frankly, rather likely to sink; her captain should get her to a shallow spot in the harbor pronto. Even if the flooding is brought under control--which will NOT be easy--even the shock of a few light bombs might be enough to reopen some seams, or provide enough shock to disable some pumps. The ship is probably a constructive total loss.
Perhaps with the Kriegsmarine even more wrecked by the end of this campaign, people on an alt AH.com will realize how impossible the Unmentionable Sea Mammal is.
On a different note, with the Hipper now effectively dead in the water, the Germans have lost all of their heavy cruisers and 1/2 their light cruisers in the first day.
On a different note, with the Hipper now effectively dead in the water, the Germans have lost all of their heavy cruisers and 1/2 their light cruisers in the first day.
Driftless
Donor
You must be new here
It's tiny motorboat sounds: but, but, but, but, but.....
Combined with re-arranging a football field due to all that goalpost moving that happens
But anyhow back to the story, excellent update, the Coastal defences did what they could considering their manning levels and uncertain orders or hesistation from commanders, and the mobile units did well all things considering. The Hipper's in dire trouble and her survival's sure as hell not a guarenteed thing considering the damage taken. The Army's also reorganising to attack which will put the Germans between an angry Norwegian speaking rock and a very very cold, deep hard place.
Also a little butterfly. The Hipper had several comparatively successful raiding cruises into the Atlantic, and we've not see what the Admiral Scheer's got up to yet in the Battle of Norway, if she's sunk or basically rendered useless that could save up to 113k + tons of merchant ships sunk by the Scheer.
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Driftless
Donor
Even if the Germans try to airlift in supplies to the forces in Trondheim, that amounts to a big diversion of the Luftwaffe transports and escorts too. While limited in numbers, the Norwegian Luftforsvaret still has some capability, and perhaps the RN may help shortly to press the Germans. To be sure, the Luftwaffe definitely has the upper hand here, but nowhere near the way they did historically. If those Ju-52's are needed to run a "Trondheim Airlift" from Stavanger, that's roughly a 700mi/1125km round trip, requiring planes, fuel and crews. That also diverts fighter cover from other work too. Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht top commanders would be keeping a somewhat nervous eye on those Ju-52's, as they're going to be needed in a couple of weeks back in Germany