The biggest one thus far is The Battle of Fornebu Airport as that fell into German hands and allowed them to quickly establish air control over the region. The Lutzow's been walloped by two torpedoes and getting her home is going to be iffy, Emden's damaged as per OTL, and the Blucher is gone too. The Battle of Horten's been a bloody mess for both sides, the largest group of Norwegian ships is largely combat ineffective or sunk now but they made a fine mess of the German ships in their frenzied defence of the naval base. Oslofjord's going to be a developing situation too for all involved, the Norwegian defences are now armed and active and very much eager to fight so anything round there's going to be bloody.
Det som går ned må komme opp-An Alternate Royal Norwegian Navy TL
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Yeah, good thing the Army and Army Air Service got new toys that they used to win the battle. Lutzow's torpedo hits are only 45cm aircraft torpedoes that the Norwegians use on their MTB's, so not as bad as two 53.3cm torpedoes, though still a problem. Emden is beached, whereas OTL she was virtually unscathed during the campaign. Yes, Horten was a major blow to the Navy, but there are still large groups of ships in Bergen and Narvik, while Kristiansand, Stavanger, and Trondheim have enough forces for the defense of their cities(in theory)
Driftless
Donor
Just for Oslo, that means the Storting and the King have more time to regroup and relocate in much less pell-mell fashion compared to our history. How might that affect their decision making progress? Historically, it was touch-and-go as to the response and the King agonized over his role, before declaring he'd abdicate before acceding to German demands. Quisling is under arrest too, and Terboven and company haven't taken control in Oslo yet.
What happens to the gold reserves? That was an epic tale of courage and creativity to get the gold across country and finally off to England. If someone were to write the story as fiction, it would be laughed off as ridiculously impossible. ASB, as we say.
Oslo is still in Norwegian hands, the government has been evacuated from the city as a precaution, where it will eventually go depends on how the rest of the attacks go. The gold has been moved to Lillehammer, as the Norwegians don't want to lose it if the Germans suddenly overwhelm their defenses. The government is currently in Elverum, but seen favorably by the people despite retreating. The decision making depends on the news that will come in the next few hours as reports of the situations in the other attacked cities are received.
That's something on my list for things to do in quarantine
Driftless
Donor
What impact might this early capture of Quisling have?
- Does it nobble semi-organized Norwegian collaborators right off the starting line?
- i.e. The Norwegian on-site commander(Col. Sundlo?) at Narvik surrendered the town without a fight. Historically, Gen. Fleischer was up near the Finnish border on April 9 with much of the Sixth Division and the Germans having time to build up hampered Fleischer's plan to retake the port
- Might that in turn, encourage the British and French to co-operate more with Norwegian military leadership? Historically, there was a ton of distrust, especially from much of the British higher commanders which limited critical information sharing.
- Does this reduce confusion on who's running the country from the average Norwegians point-of-view?
I wonder if the Norwegians would be able to actually drive the Germans to the sea or at least force them to a long weariness warfare. Or if they lose, we could see the Norwegian Navy in exile participating in other operations of WW2.
In Narvik, Sundlo will have a bit of a different situation on his hands... anyways, most of the collaborators are offset by Norwegians who don't want to lose their country, once the big picture becomes clearer, they will act in their best interests,
If the Norwegians fair better and the situation isn't so desperate, they may just earn the respect of the Allies, allowing for greater cooperation
Yes, Quisling's arrest has been publicized, and it is well known that the government plans to continue fighting, as evidenced by the aerial warfare over the Oslo area and sounds of guns to the south
The battles in Narvik, Trondheim, Bergen, Stavanger, Egersund, and Kristiansand will have different outcomes to each extreme. Norway falling is a possibility, and the actions of the commanders at the aforementioned locations will be crucial to the country's status for the rest of the war...
Driftless
Donor
To my way of thinking, one the better parts of the film is the humanizing of the King. Early in the movie, he's the kindly old grandfather playing hide-and-seek with the kids out on the snowy yard. Later, during the opening attack, he's laying on the floor, carrying on a conversation about the invasion. (He's laying on the floor because he had a chronically bad back and he was in great physical pain, along with anguish over the events).
This is the really big change not just for the attack on Norway but also for the attack west just how much of the LW Ju52 fleet and paratroops have been destroyed and what does that do to the image of paratroops going forward?
Would they not be far less that OTL due to the far more favourable situation and the history of stronger defence build-up leading the conservatives officers especially who defected to the far right not be more mainstream as they would have been more involved in the defence effort build up and therefore more satisfied with the government than OTL?
I dont see that it will without the fall of the army early on and the airbases for LW 109s gaining air supremacy will be hard and RAF reinforcements will be coming very soon?
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The paratroops are all KIA or POWs, roughly 20 of the transports were shot down or lost on the ground, many more were damaged or bugged out. This negatively affects the image of paratroopers, though Stavanger will also influence their perception. The major hindrance to the paratroops was they were in the middle of getting their rifles out when the fully armed Norwegian vanguard arrived, so some improvisation to have them ready to fight when they land might be begun as well.
Yes, but there are a few.
If Oslo is isolated by the capture of the other locations, it will fall. That's an if.
Chapter XXI
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Chapter XXI: Kristiansand, Stavanger, and Egersund
The Battle of Kristiansand
Norwegian forces in Kristiansand consisted of three fishery protection vessels that had been armed, though only Frithjof Nansen, now a minelayer, had any anti-ship weapons to speak of, while Nordkapp and Senja, which were minesweepers, had little battle value. The subchasers UM-1 and UM-2, though excellent ASW vessels, weren’t meant for surface warfare. The four MTB’s in the city represented the most effective vessels for ship to ship combat with their torpedoes, and three auxiliaries were patrolling the entrance to the harbor, which was itself covered by heavy guns at Odderøya fortress, consisting of 3 batteries of 2 15cm guns, 4 24cm howitzers, 2 21cm guns, and 2 65cm guns. Facing the Norwegian defenders were the light cruiser Karlsruhe, torpedo boats Luch, Greif and Seeadler, as well as the S-Boat-Tender Tsingtau.
News had been received at 03:00 hours of a German assault on Oslo, along with orders not to fire on British ships. The German vessels were flying the white ensign as part of their disguise as members of the fictional British fleet in the Skagerrak when they approached the harbor at 05:00. When challenged by a patrolling trawler, Karlsruhe identified herself as HMS Carlisle, while the torpedo boats said they were British destroyers, arriving to help fight the Germans. The Norwegian commanders believed their stories, and the minesweeper Nordkapp was assigned to guide the ‘British’ warships through the minefields laid by Frithjof Nansen just days prior. Upon arriving in harbor, the Germans prepared to seize control using the incredible opening they had, with troops preparing to disembark from their transports. At 06:03, the white ensign was hauled down, while the Kriegsmarine’s ensign ascended the mast, and guns were trained on the Norwegian vessels. After a moment of confusion among the Norwegians, it seemed as if the Navy would surrender without a fight.
Captain Pedersen watched from his bridge as the German ships, guns trained on the Norwegian vessels. Those damned Nazis were going to take Kristiansand without a fight! Pedersen knew he couldn’t let that happen, but if it were to happen, the history books would say the Norwegians fired back, outcome be damned.
Pedersen rang down to the engine room, “Give me full power, Chief!” Next, he phoned the gunnery officer, and ordered him to fire all weapons on Pedersen’s mark.
Senja cut her moorings, heading for the cruiser. The ship’s top speed was 13.5 knots, and she wasn’t closing the range as fast as Pedersen would have liked, but she was moving. He ordered the guns to fire; the 3-pounder began flinging shells at the cruiser, the machine guns spitting at whatever they could, and just like that, the Norwegians all attacked. Frithjof Nansen, armed with two 10.2cm guns, engaged Seeadler, the MTB’s made for the large ships, Nordkapp did a 180 and came alongside Luch, the two sub-chasers attacked Tsingtau. An army 3.7cm gun sang out from shore.
Nansen managed to score several hits on Seeadler, including one on the bridge, before Greif torpedoed her, causing heavy casualties. Nordkapp’s crewmen fired on those aboard Luch with anything they could find, with even wrenches found flung on the deck after the battle, and a shot from the 3-pounder disabled the No.3 10.5cm mount. Luch managed to overpower Nordkapp, but the little ship had made a nuisance of herself. Tsingtau and her S-boats took care of UM-1 and UM-2, then the S-boats made for the four Norwegian MTB’s making for Karlsruhe, quickly dispatching them, but not before one loosed a torpedo at the cruiser that hit her amidships, disabling the engines.
Senja steamed through all this, firing in every direction, her bow pointed at the cruiser, the little minesweeper eating shells and tracers, killing and wounding much of her crew, including her helmsman. Pedersen took the wheel, refusing to order his men to abandon ship as he kept the ship headed for the immobile Karlsruhe. The 3-pounder was destroyed by a 15cm shell that crunched through Senja’s insides, a 2cm gun raked the bridge, the funnel fell overboard. Pedersen’s last sight was the bow of his final command impacting Karlsruhe at about 8 knots before a 2cm gun got a good angle at the bridge. The slow moving, 280 ton vessel did less damage to Karlsruhe than the destroyer Glowworm had done to Admiral Hipper the day before, but there was still another hole in Karlsruhe’s side letting water in.
The land forces were landed in Kristiansand under fire from the 6th Infantry Regiment, which was in turn under fire from the warships in the harbor. The batteries guarding the entrance to Kristiansand were seized relatively easily, and Luftwaffe bombers soon arrived over the town, aiding the men that were making slow progress. The only combat aircraft in Kristiansand were a dozen Navy floatplanes, 10 of which were destroyed in the harbor, while two on patrol were warned off and flew away.
By 11 April, Kristiansand was in German hands, although the 6th Infantry Regiment had retreated in good order. Karlsruhe left the port for Germany to receive repairs on 10 April, her engines now working, the torpedo boats escorting, and passed right in front of the submarine HMS Truant, receiving two torpedo hits. The already damaged cruiser capsized an hour later, but many historians conclude that without the damage taken during the Battle of Kristiansand, she might have survived the attack.
The Battle of Stavanger
Stavanger, guarded by the guns of two old coastal defense ships now emplaced on shore and a small naval detachment, was well suited to repel an attack by sea. The local defenders were well aware of the possibility of an attack, between reports of German troop ships being sunk in Norwegian waters, communications warning of attacks on Norwegian cities, and most importantly of all, the sinking of the merchant Roda, which had failed to show her cargo upon inspection, and failed to follow orders from the Norwegian vessels sent to deal with her, eventually resulting in an MTB putting a 45cm torpedo into her midsection.
Stavanger’s coastal batteries were on full alert, while all four MTB’s were ready to attack anything entering the harbor, with the Army deployed to mop up anything that got through, and the Navy’s floatplanes were either patrolling the sea around the city or sitting in harbor, their crews close and torpedoes hanging between their floats. Stavanger was fully prepared for the sort of attack the other targets suffered, but Stavanger wasn’t attacked from the sea. The invaders came from the sky. Stationed at Sola Airfield, the target of the German aerial assault, was just one rifle platoon and a couple of light machine guns.
At about 08:00, several aircraft were sighted inbound from the south. They attacked the minelayer Start, a converted freighter with an AA armament of 2 machine guns as well as a top speed of 11 knots, and quickly sank her. The four nimble torpedo boats were more difficult targets, but one was disabled and another damaged, both from machine gun fire and not bombs. The attack on the warships seemed to confirm the suspicions of the commanders in the area that Stavanger would come under attack from the sea.
At approximately 08:30, several Ju 88 bombers attacked Sola Airfield, machine gunning or bombing anything that moved. As soon as they left, a pair of Me 110 fighters swept down from the sky, forcing the defenders to again seek cover, minutes before a dozen Ju 52s, paratroopers onboard, swept over the airfield, the defenders just beginning to leave their cover. Without the time to regroup, the Norwegians were not organized, and fought the paratroopers in piecemeal, allowing themselves to be overwhelmed, but not before they were able to alert Oberst Gunnar Spørck, commander of the 8th Infantry Regiment, of the intruders.
The N-3PBs were immediately ordered to have their payloads switched from a torpedo to any available high explosive bombs for supporting the infantry, though six of the twelve would remain on patrol for the naval assault that was still believed to be coming. By the time Spørck got his men into positions outside of Stavanger, several dozen Ju 52s had landed, offloading their occupants without enemy fire, unlike those in Oslo. Many more transports were either waiting to descend to the ground or were on their way to the airfield. The Norwegians, instead of advancing to the airfield where they could have still pushed the Germans back, settled on digging in near Hinna, about 6 kilometers south of Stavanger. When the Germans came in the early afternoon, they probed the quickly erected defenses, and attacked the flanks, as the Norwegians didn’t have enough men to simultaneously defend the neck of Stavanger Peninsula in strength. This strategy was successful with a breakthrough being achieved near the western shore of the peninsula, and the Norwegians rolled up.
The two remaining MTB’s made for Haugesund, while the 8 remaining N-3PBs headed for Bergen. Stavanger was firmly under German control by nightfall, another Norwegian target successfully taken. Egersund, with a military presence of 40 soldiers and a naval trawler, was quickly taken by over 300 infantry disembarked from a pair of minesweepers. However, despite the three German victories, as well as their capture of southern Oslofjord, Norway was still in the war.
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Chapter XXI: Kristiansand, Stavanger, and Egersund
The Battle of Kristiansand
Norwegian forces in Kristiansand consisted of three fishery protection vessels that had been armed, though only Frithjof Nansen, now a minelayer, had any anti-ship weapons to speak of, while Nordkapp and Senja, which were minesweepers, had little battle value. The subchasers UM-1 and UM-2, though excellent ASW vessels, weren’t meant for surface warfare. The four MTB’s in the city represented the most effective vessels for ship to ship combat with their torpedoes, and three auxiliaries were patrolling the entrance to the harbor, which was itself covered by heavy guns at Odderøya fortress, consisting of 3 batteries of 2 15cm guns, 4 24cm howitzers, 2 21cm guns, and 2 65cm guns. Facing the Norwegian defenders were the light cruiser Karlsruhe, torpedo boats Luch, Greif and Seeadler, as well as the S-Boat-Tender Tsingtau.
News had been received at 03:00 hours of a German assault on Oslo, along with orders not to fire on British ships. The German vessels were flying the white ensign as part of their disguise as members of the fictional British fleet in the Skagerrak when they approached the harbor at 05:00. When challenged by a patrolling trawler, Karlsruhe identified herself as HMS Carlisle, while the torpedo boats said they were British destroyers, arriving to help fight the Germans. The Norwegian commanders believed their stories, and the minesweeper Nordkapp was assigned to guide the ‘British’ warships through the minefields laid by Frithjof Nansen just days prior. Upon arriving in harbor, the Germans prepared to seize control using the incredible opening they had, with troops preparing to disembark from their transports. At 06:03, the white ensign was hauled down, while the Kriegsmarine’s ensign ascended the mast, and guns were trained on the Norwegian vessels. After a moment of confusion among the Norwegians, it seemed as if the Navy would surrender without a fight.
Captain Pedersen watched from his bridge as the German ships, guns trained on the Norwegian vessels. Those damned Nazis were going to take Kristiansand without a fight! Pedersen knew he couldn’t let that happen, but if it were to happen, the history books would say the Norwegians fired back, outcome be damned.
Pedersen rang down to the engine room, “Give me full power, Chief!” Next, he phoned the gunnery officer, and ordered him to fire all weapons on Pedersen’s mark.
Senja cut her moorings, heading for the cruiser. The ship’s top speed was 13.5 knots, and she wasn’t closing the range as fast as Pedersen would have liked, but she was moving. He ordered the guns to fire; the 3-pounder began flinging shells at the cruiser, the machine guns spitting at whatever they could, and just like that, the Norwegians all attacked. Frithjof Nansen, armed with two 10.2cm guns, engaged Seeadler, the MTB’s made for the large ships, Nordkapp did a 180 and came alongside Luch, the two sub-chasers attacked Tsingtau. An army 3.7cm gun sang out from shore.
Nansen managed to score several hits on Seeadler, including one on the bridge, before Greif torpedoed her, causing heavy casualties. Nordkapp’s crewmen fired on those aboard Luch with anything they could find, with even wrenches found flung on the deck after the battle, and a shot from the 3-pounder disabled the No.3 10.5cm mount. Luch managed to overpower Nordkapp, but the little ship had made a nuisance of herself. Tsingtau and her S-boats took care of UM-1 and UM-2, then the S-boats made for the four Norwegian MTB’s making for Karlsruhe, quickly dispatching them, but not before one loosed a torpedo at the cruiser that hit her amidships, disabling the engines.
Senja steamed through all this, firing in every direction, her bow pointed at the cruiser, the little minesweeper eating shells and tracers, killing and wounding much of her crew, including her helmsman. Pedersen took the wheel, refusing to order his men to abandon ship as he kept the ship headed for the immobile Karlsruhe. The 3-pounder was destroyed by a 15cm shell that crunched through Senja’s insides, a 2cm gun raked the bridge, the funnel fell overboard. Pedersen’s last sight was the bow of his final command impacting Karlsruhe at about 8 knots before a 2cm gun got a good angle at the bridge. The slow moving, 280 ton vessel did less damage to Karlsruhe than the destroyer Glowworm had done to Admiral Hipper the day before, but there was still another hole in Karlsruhe’s side letting water in.
The land forces were landed in Kristiansand under fire from the 6th Infantry Regiment, which was in turn under fire from the warships in the harbor. The batteries guarding the entrance to Kristiansand were seized relatively easily, and Luftwaffe bombers soon arrived over the town, aiding the men that were making slow progress. The only combat aircraft in Kristiansand were a dozen Navy floatplanes, 10 of which were destroyed in the harbor, while two on patrol were warned off and flew away.
By 11 April, Kristiansand was in German hands, although the 6th Infantry Regiment had retreated in good order. Karlsruhe left the port for Germany to receive repairs on 10 April, her engines now working, the torpedo boats escorting, and passed right in front of the submarine HMS Truant, receiving two torpedo hits. The already damaged cruiser capsized an hour later, but many historians conclude that without the damage taken during the Battle of Kristiansand, she might have survived the attack.
The Battle of Stavanger
Stavanger, guarded by the guns of two old coastal defense ships now emplaced on shore and a small naval detachment, was well suited to repel an attack by sea. The local defenders were well aware of the possibility of an attack, between reports of German troop ships being sunk in Norwegian waters, communications warning of attacks on Norwegian cities, and most importantly of all, the sinking of the merchant Roda, which had failed to show her cargo upon inspection, and failed to follow orders from the Norwegian vessels sent to deal with her, eventually resulting in an MTB putting a 45cm torpedo into her midsection.
Stavanger’s coastal batteries were on full alert, while all four MTB’s were ready to attack anything entering the harbor, with the Army deployed to mop up anything that got through, and the Navy’s floatplanes were either patrolling the sea around the city or sitting in harbor, their crews close and torpedoes hanging between their floats. Stavanger was fully prepared for the sort of attack the other targets suffered, but Stavanger wasn’t attacked from the sea. The invaders came from the sky. Stationed at Sola Airfield, the target of the German aerial assault, was just one rifle platoon and a couple of light machine guns.
At about 08:00, several aircraft were sighted inbound from the south. They attacked the minelayer Start, a converted freighter with an AA armament of 2 machine guns as well as a top speed of 11 knots, and quickly sank her. The four nimble torpedo boats were more difficult targets, but one was disabled and another damaged, both from machine gun fire and not bombs. The attack on the warships seemed to confirm the suspicions of the commanders in the area that Stavanger would come under attack from the sea.
At approximately 08:30, several Ju 88 bombers attacked Sola Airfield, machine gunning or bombing anything that moved. As soon as they left, a pair of Me 110 fighters swept down from the sky, forcing the defenders to again seek cover, minutes before a dozen Ju 52s, paratroopers onboard, swept over the airfield, the defenders just beginning to leave their cover. Without the time to regroup, the Norwegians were not organized, and fought the paratroopers in piecemeal, allowing themselves to be overwhelmed, but not before they were able to alert Oberst Gunnar Spørck, commander of the 8th Infantry Regiment, of the intruders.
The N-3PBs were immediately ordered to have their payloads switched from a torpedo to any available high explosive bombs for supporting the infantry, though six of the twelve would remain on patrol for the naval assault that was still believed to be coming. By the time Spørck got his men into positions outside of Stavanger, several dozen Ju 52s had landed, offloading their occupants without enemy fire, unlike those in Oslo. Many more transports were either waiting to descend to the ground or were on their way to the airfield. The Norwegians, instead of advancing to the airfield where they could have still pushed the Germans back, settled on digging in near Hinna, about 6 kilometers south of Stavanger. When the Germans came in the early afternoon, they probed the quickly erected defenses, and attacked the flanks, as the Norwegians didn’t have enough men to simultaneously defend the neck of Stavanger Peninsula in strength. This strategy was successful with a breakthrough being achieved near the western shore of the peninsula, and the Norwegians rolled up.
The two remaining MTB’s made for Haugesund, while the 8 remaining N-3PBs headed for Bergen. Stavanger was firmly under German control by nightfall, another Norwegian target successfully taken. Egersund, with a military presence of 40 soldiers and a naval trawler, was quickly taken by over 300 infantry disembarked from a pair of minesweepers. However, despite the three German victories, as well as their capture of southern Oslofjord, Norway was still in the war.
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This is truly a phyrric victory if Germany succeeds in taking Norway, worse than OTL. Not only will the Kriegsmarine be gutted more than IOTL, but from the looks of it, the transport arm of the Luftwaffe will have lost many transports that will impact paradrops in Benelux and Crete
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Driftless
Donor
There would be enough reserve for the May invasions, but the quality of crews for the transports and probably the quality of the surviving fallschirmjaegers would be decreased. Many of the best of both groups would be either dead or POWs. Parachute and air-lifted troop operations in the Balkans, mainland Greece, and certainly Crete become shakier propositions.
Would be interesting to know how many men attacked Stravangar, OTL it was only 132 German fallschirmjägers so would the much stronger Norwegian army not at least survive longer than OTL if they have an entire Regiment on hand?
That and did they complete any more MG bunkers near the airport than OTL solo one?
Talking of the Norwegian army with 2,945,000 people how big is the fully mobilized army?
For example, the Fins had 300,000–340,000 soldiers from 3.7M (81,000/m), the Swedes had 400-600,000 from 6.4M (62,500/M) so we could be looking at 150,000-180,000 troops fully deployed in peace time order and you talked about then 2/3 mobilizing ore war?
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That sounds like the paratroopers you are talking about. Once they mopped up the Norwegian force, still disorganized and a little scared from the air raid, about half a Regiment was flown in. The Norwegians, spread across the peninsula because they thought the German invaders were stronger than they were, were hit in one spot by the concentrated German infantry, which broke through and exploited the window to defeat the rest of the Regiment before it had time to adjust. The Norwegians got some new toys and restructured armed forces, but I never said extremely intelligent officers.
Each Regiment consists of 3 battalions of 1,500 men(each made up of 3 companies of 500), or roughly 4,500 men per Regiment, the current mobilization level is 2 battalions+1 company of the 3rd battalion, so each Regiment has about 3,500 men at its disposal, there are 18 Regiments, so 81,000 men for full mobilization, 63,000 men at current mobilization. As Carl Hambro(who still arranged for the flight of the government TTL, though it wasn't needed as badly) mentioned in Chapter XVIII, Norway is at 3/4 mobilization.
The attack on Stavanger TTL didn't suffer a ton of losses-the Germans took some fighting the Norwegian Regiment stationed there, but that's it. The Battle of Fornebu Airport only lost the Germans 20 Ju 52's, fairly easily replaced, though not the forces they landed, which were all lost(unless Norway falls and they are freed)
Painful losses for the Germans and Norwegians, but they're giving it the best shot they can really and with all things considered. The Norwegians are fighting bravely but the Germans are better equipped and better trained, but still its bloodying the German advances. Kristienstrand and Sola airbase though are major losses and ones that the Allies could come to regret.