Der Kampf: The Rise and Fall of the Austrian Führer
- Thread starter Tanner151
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Ficboy
Banned
@Tanner151, why exactly does Adolf Hitler even call his ideology Social Nationalism or Sozinatism rather than National Socialism/Nazism in OTL. What does the ideology's name even mean? What's the name of the symbol that the Osterreichische Sozialnationalistische Volkspartei (OSNVP) uses I know in OTL it was the insignia of the Vaterlandische Front (VF) but what is it called here in Der Kampf. Plus given the flag of Sozinat Austria is black, white and red my guess is that they are pan-Germanic and want to have an alliance with Germany since they see them as one and the same as you pointed out. I'm also guessing that the Reichsadler or whatever it's called here alongside Nordic runes will be the symbols of the Sozinat Party.
Alright, I've just caught up with this story and it's pretty damn good. Nobody really talks about the A-H in ww1 really.
Looking to the future I doubt that Hitler's Austria will ally Italy, considering WW1 isn't going to change so Italy is still taking South Tyrol, I could see him developing a hatred of the Italians over it, maybe instead of a Sudetenland crisis there's a South Tyrol crisis? I can also see him viewing Romanians as subhuman based on his war experiences.
Looking to the future I doubt that Hitler's Austria will ally Italy, considering WW1 isn't going to change so Italy is still taking South Tyrol, I could see him developing a hatred of the Italians over it, maybe instead of a Sudetenland crisis there's a South Tyrol crisis? I can also see him viewing Romanians as subhuman based on his war experiences.
The use of social indicates that the ideology is collectivistic. It’s important to remember that nationalism was seen a liberal early on and especially in multiethnic states, the use of social here indicates that they’re “conservative“ nationalist and that they support state intervention into the economy.
Seeing as Austria is less industrialized than Germany, I think that a greater focus on a mixed planned economy with the Austrian state setting up and developing state owned heavy industry and develop their chemical industry. Hitler also have to deal with Austria having a greater need for imports. Austria have oil, gas and coal, a easy way to use them to export instead of domestic consumption is to replace them with other forms of energy. Here Austria have access to massive amount of hydro power so a focus on building large dams. Massive energy surplus also allow a focus on energy wasting industries.
The lack of the Lebensraum ideology is also a important difference, here we could see a focus on green revolution technology, with Austria being rich in electrical power it could use that to produce chemical fertilizer and agrochemicals to improve the agricultural regions of Austria rather than dream of a German farmers settling the East.
Going back to the first chapter.
This Second World War is gonna be a clusterfuck.
This implies that the Kaiser does get restored in Germany, and that France is involved the North African front.
This also implies that Japan gets involved a bit earlier than they did in
This Second World War is gonna be a clusterfuck.
Outside Yugoslavia being the obvious easy victim, I would suggest Hitler here would focus on either annexing Bohemia or vassalize Czechia with the Sudetenland being made a “sister republic” to Austria. Other targets would be Backa-Banat as another sister republic.
So here’s the potential conflicts
1: Yugoslavia
2: Czechoslavkia
3: Hungary
The result would be a “alliance“ or confederation of sister republics
Austria
Croatia
Czechia
Sudetenland
Slovakia
Hungary
Backa-Banat
Hungary and Czechia would be de facto protectorates. While Austria (likely including German areas in south Czechia, a enlarged Burgenland and most of Slovenia), Sudetenland and Backa-Banat would be German dominated. Croatia and Slovakia would be de facto allies in upkeeping the confederation. We would likely see population exchanges between Backa-Banat and Romania, Croatia and Hungary. Croatia and Backa-Banat would simply expel the Serbs.
So here’s the potential conflicts
1: Yugoslavia
2: Czechoslavkia
3: Hungary
The result would be a “alliance“ or confederation of sister republics
Austria
Croatia
Czechia
Sudetenland
Slovakia
Hungary
Backa-Banat
Hungary and Czechia would be de facto protectorates. While Austria (likely including German areas in south Czechia, a enlarged Burgenland and most of Slovenia), Sudetenland and Backa-Banat would be German dominated. Croatia and Slovakia would be de facto allies in upkeeping the confederation. We would likely see population exchanges between Backa-Banat and Romania, Croatia and Hungary. Croatia and Backa-Banat would simply expel the Serbs.
Strasser will be a major player in German politics in the 20s and 30s. I haven’t quite decided how he will or what party he will be a party of but I know his party won’t be the DNVP and it will either be the DAP or the German Social Nationalist People’s Party (Deutsche Sozialnationalistische Volkspartei, DSNVP). There will be multiple right/far-right parties in Germany, just like OTL, just no NSDAP. (I know there were several small parties called the NSDAP or the DNSAP but they will either be butterflied away or be so minor as to not feature except maybe as a one off.
DNVP will play a major role in 1930s Germany. That is all I will say for now.
White uniforms would be too obvious in combat, unless it takes place in the Alps or other snow-covered environments.
I can see a White Guard unit that patrols maybe the State Chancellery or the Government Quarter of Vienna. But if they were in actual combat they would have to switch to combat uniforms.
I did read that field gray was replacing pike gray by the middle of the Great War. I’m aiming to have the Volkswehr use light gray uniforms once Hitler comes to power. I’ve been looking at uniforms and they range from blue, to a gray blue to a light gray. I am going to use the light gray version of hechtgrau. I’m not going to go with khaki since that is an American, British, Serbian and Russian color (I’m sure there are others too).
This is to differentiate from the German field gray but show a shared heritage/culture. Also, I like the light gray version of pike gray.
Post-Empire Austria and pre-Hitler Austria will likely use khaki uniforms or field gray but once Hitler comes to power that’ll change.
Yep, the Eight Nation Alliance taking the Taku Fortifications
That looks awesome to be honest. They look like sailors to me though.
Honestly, I began to use Social Nationalism to simply differentiate from National Socialism while worldbuilding. But I began to like the term since it was similar, rememberable and could have a “Nazi” like nickname in the form of Sozinat and helps reflect how this Hitler is slightly different than his OTL self.
But the comments and feedback y’all are giving is very helpful and constructive. Having Austria be a bit more state interventionist/collectivist could definitely work. Nationalize industries that don’t meet their demands or quotas.
But I want to tread carefully and make sure it is discernible from Communism. It definitely is Socialism but Fascist Socialism in a way. Private property will exist, and there will be privately owned Corporations that will be very supportive of the State and work hand in hand with the ÖSNVP, example: Steyr-Daimler-Puch. That will be probably the biggest corporation in Hitler’s Austria during his reign.
Social Nationalist Austria is pan-German, but one that must be led by Hitler/Vienna, which not all German-speaking people outside of Austria will be too keen on. Many will support the idea, but many others will not.
The symbol is the cross crutch, the Kruckenkreuz. And yes it was the symbol of the Fatherland Front in OTL. It will not be the symbol ITTL, but there will be a Fatherland Front ITTL and will be led by Engelbert Dollfuss but will be quite different in several ways which will become obvious by the 1930s/when it is created.
I think the red Kruckenkreuz black looks really nice and that’ll be the standard of the Party.
Thank you! There are so many WW2s centered on an Alternate Germany, but I haven’t seen many about an Alternate Austria. And while Germany will be very important ITTL, a Hitler-led Austria was just too interesting to not do and focus on.
There will be a lot of tense Austrian-Italian tensions in the 20s and 30s, even worse than OTL due to events that will occur ITTL.
Early on in Hitler’s Regime, Austro-Italian relations will hit rock bottom but will change due to other circumstances and geo-politics.
Hitler is still fighting against the Russians on the Eastern Front as of late 1916, he will transfer to Romania at a later date, and he will come to despise the country though not to Yugoslavia-hate levels. Sees them as predators for taking advantage of A-H weakness.
This is exactly the angle I’m going with. Great explanation
All excellent points, and very informative! These are good things for Hitler’s Austria to focus on.
Correct, the Hohenzollerns are restored in the mid-1930s. Very good catch, no one has mentioned that yet.
And France is involved in North Africa, combating Axis forces with various degrees of success. Good eye. There is another hint from the opening quotes that show a different event than OTL but it is super minor.
Japan does begin military operations against the West in 1940, yes.
The World War 2 in the Der Kampf universe will be widespread, destructive and will feature many countries from OTL but some countries will be on different sides, some different groups will be persecuted alongside some obvious ones and there will be new and familiar battlefields.
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Ficboy
Banned
Given that there exists a Sozinat party in Germany, the DAP could merge with them and either Strasser or Goring could take control.
Speaking of which, will events such as the Holocaust, Final Solution and Kristallnacht occur in Sozinat Austria. Then again, Hitler's ideology in Der Kampf could have still been called National Socialism/Nazism like OTL. The same goes for Der Kampf which could just as easily be called Mein Kampf per OTL and might even adopt the swastika as a symbol.
So what will the Sozinat SS and SA be called anyway? Also, since Sozinat Austria and its allies will lose World War II as well as Adolf Hitler committing suicide my guess is that Neo-Fascism will be the equivalent of Neo-Nazism in TTL since Hitler's ideology basically falls under this. Not to mention all the inevitable genocide denial and probably ban on Sozinat symbols in post-war Austria and other countries such as France and Germany. Fascist will likely be the equivalent term for Nazi to describe anyone is perceived to be racist and/or anti-Semitic.
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Funny thing an Austrian focused timeline, both world wars will be caused by it and both will be because of the damn Balkans.
I guess that makes sense, most of axis nations, including two of the big three, were at war with Germany during ww1 and yet still became their ally so the same could happen for the Austrian State.
I could see a secret agreement between Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria and the USSR to tear apart Romania.
Yeah I'm kinda surprised no-one mentioned it. I'm guessing that it's a similar thing as in Italy where technically the king was in charge but Mussolini was pulling the strings. Just because there's a restoration doesn't mean that the far right won't take over still, the Weimar republic is still gonna be incredibly unstable I bet. As for who the Kaiser is I'm betting it's Wilhelm III rather than the old Kaiser, too many bad memories.
Considering that France is in North Africa, there might not be a Vichy France ITTL, or different colonies swore loyalty instead. And considering it's de Gaulle I'm guessing that France has followed a similar post war path as in OTL.
I saw the Bosnian Partisan bit and I'm guessing Bosnia is getting fucked over much earlier than IOTL.
Well one nation that isn't going Axis is Romania, they're viewed as subhuman so that ones just not gonna happen, I'm betting Hitler will just jump on the dogpile when Romania is getting partitioned. Serbians are going to be one of the main targets of this holocaust, alongside the Romanians I suspect. Germany is a massive question mark for me, I don't know if they'll be one the main axis nations or like Spain OTL.
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Looking foward to more! Excellent work. The execution scene was absoluetly brutal and gut-wrenching. Watched!
How could Adolf Hitler as Führer of Austria be even capable of conquering large swathes of Europe? Austria's a lot smaller than Germany, and has a much smaller population. I'm interested in how he would try circumvent this limitation without a Great Power being an ally of his.
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Deus Vult. The Emperor Commands You!
But I wonder that too. I could never see Hungary, for example going back under the crown in any way more integrated than an alliance. Maybe Hitler is that great a speaker?
Ficboy
Banned
The conquests will be limited to nearby Yugoslavia and other areas of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. It likely won't be all of Europe given some of the reasons listed.
If he manages to expand the war to Africa, he will have had to have been rather successful in Europe. I don't see him exerting much power in Africa if he doesn't manage to take a significant amount more territory.
One thing I do know for a fact is that Austria is not going to be a naval power at all during the second world war, minus ships stolen after the fall of Yugoslavia, if they even take coastal regions or just give them to a puppet Croatian state.
Deleted member 94680
Sozis is genuine German. Going by other German contractions (SiPo, Gestapo, flak even) it’s the first ‘part’ of a word that is used. So sozinats would be ‘sona’.
But it’s your TL, so it’s your choice.