Der Kampf: The Rise and Fall of the Austrian Führer

[Tanner151]

Great chapter!

I really felt for those soldiers and what they had to deal with. Plus you somehow made Hitler feel Heroic.

Really good work.

Every man is a hero in his own mind. Now Hitler at this time is no different than your average soldier. Perhaps more racist, nationalistic and such, but nothing to draw much note on in 1917 A-H.

You may be cheering for him now but I guarantee you that by the end you’ll curse the bastard as fervently as OTL. It is weird writing a hated historical figure in an angle in which he could be perceived positively. Just makes the fall to evil all the more sorrowful for everyone.

Since the German Empire is restored by the 1930s under the Hohenzollerns as @Tanner151 succinctly points out, the OTL Deutschesnationale Volkspartei (DNVP) is going to take power with Alfred Hugenberg as Chancellor and Wilhelm III or someone else as puppet ruler basically it will resemble Fascist Italy if it were more monarchist.

As for its policies, DNVP Germany would be similar in some respects to the Nazi Party/NSDAP such as remilitarization, repealing the Treaty of Versailles and state sanctioned anti-Semitism. Since Germany in Der Kampf isn't fascist I doubt they would ever commit genocide on the Jewish population of Europe instead you'll probably see Jim Crow-style segregation. They would also want to expand into German-majority areas of Poland, Czechoslovakia and France or regain any territory that they lost after World War I. As for Sozinat Austria, they would have very mixed feelings about Hitler since they're both German but are wildly different in terms of government and methods but that said they might enter an alliance for TTL's World War II to oppose the so-called "International Jews" of Russia/Soviet Union, France, Britain and the United States assuming if they participate in the conflict.

Hitting on some good points here though 1930s Germany is a spoiler heavy topic so I can’t answer much of this at the moment without revealing some major plot points.

Go Hitler!

I'm going to Hell now.

Never in my life would I have imagined someone cheering for Hitler on a story of mine haha. But thanks! Glad he’s coming across as a character that is flawed and hateful, but likable. It’s what makes men like him dangerous.

 

[Ficboy]

Every man is a hero in his own mind. Now Hitler at this time is no different than your average soldier. Perhaps more racist, nationalistic and such, but nothing to draw much note on in 1917 A-H.

You may be cheering for him now but I guarantee you that by the end you’ll curse the bastard as fervently as OTL. It is weird writing a hated historical figure in an angle in which he could be perceived positively. Just makes the fall to evil all the more sorrowful for everyone.


Hitting on some good points here though 1930s Germany is a spoiler heavy topic so I can’t answer much of this at the moment without revealing some major plot points.


Never in my life would I have imagined someone cheering for Hitler on a story of mine haha. But thanks! Glad he’s coming across as a character that is flawed and hateful, but likable. It’s what makes men like him dangerous.

Just a reminder regarding the DNVP version of the German Empire Hugenberg himself was a radical who sought to turn his nation into a totalitarian dictatorship not to mention he was a well-known media mogul which would prove very useful for him when he becomes Reich Chancellor since he would use the press to attack specific political parties such as the SPD and the KDP as being quote unquote "Jewish-controlled" and/or traitors to the German nation. He would seek to co-opt imagery and important figures from the Holy Roman Empire and the original German Empire such as Frederick I, Otto I, Martin Luther, Otto von Bismarck and Wilhelm II. Christianity would be heavily emphasized in the DNVP German Empire but used for anti-Semitic purposes much like Sozinat Austria. Hugenberg's Germany would be preparing for war and attempt to regain its prominence as a world power in not just Europe but Africa as well and they'll start by invading France and other countries which have substantial German populations and/or previously hostile in World War I such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Soviet Union.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

He would seek to co-opt imagery and important figures from the Holy Roman Empire and the original German Empire such as Frederick I, Otto I, Martin Luther, Otto von Bismarck and Wilhelm II. Christianity would be heavily emphasized in the DNVP German Empire but used for anti-Semitic purposes much like Sozinat Austria.

Where do you get this from? Bearing in mind that the Centre Party were the political face of the Catholic Church in Weimar Germany.

 

[Ficboy]

Where do you get this from? Bearing in mind that the Centre Party were the political face of the Catholic Church in Weimar Germany.

Since the DNVP are in essence trying to bring back the German Empire they would at least use Christianity to boost support amongst voters specifically Protestantism given that it was the faith of Bismarck and the Kaiser and to an extent Catholicism despite competition from the Centre Party.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Since the DNVP are in essence trying to bring back the German Empire they would at least use Christianity to boost support amongst voters specifically Protestantism given that it was the faith of Bismarck and the Kaiser and to an extent Catholicism despite competition from the Centre Party.

Except Hugenberg gave up on monarchism around the time he wrested control of the party from von Westarp. Christianity failed as a political rallying call in the post-War German environment, as the successes of the KPD, SDP and (obviously) the NSDAP prove. The church was a “busted flush” in Weimar, they had a chance and blew it. I seriously doubt an incompetent like Hugenberg could use the Church to bolster his flagging appeal when the individual elements floundered OTL.

 

[Ficboy]

Except Hugenberg gave up on monarchism around the time he wrested control of the party from von Westarp. Christianity failed as a political rallying call in the post-War German environment, as the successes of the KPD, SDP and (obviously) the NSDAP prove. The church was a “busted flush” in Weimar, they had a chance and blew it. I seriously doubt an incompetent like Hugenberg could use the Church to bolster his flagging appeal when the individual elements floundered OTL.

Well since there is no Nazi Party due to Bavaria finding out about Adolf Hitler's Austrian citizenship this does give the DNVP a lot of opportunities to take control of Germany and given that butterflies will emerge in the early 1930s as Tanner has stated things might be different.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Well since there is no Nazi Party due to Bavaria finding out about Adolf Hitler's Austrian citizenship this does give the DNVP a lot of opportunities to take control of Germany and given that butterflies will emerge in the early 1930s as Tanner has stated things might be different.

No, it gives the DNVP a slim opportunity to take control. It isn’t a simple “no NSDAP = DNVP Germany” equation, or at least it shouldn’t be.

 

[Ficboy]

No, it gives the DNVP a slim opportunity to take control. It isn’t a simple “no NSDAP = DNVP Germany” equation, or at least it shouldn’t be.

Perhaps. The absence of the Nazi Party though means the DNVP will have more of a chance to tap into disenchanted German voters as the ultranationalist party then again it will face competition and might enter a coalition with other parties if necessary to gain power.

 

[Triune Kingdom]

Nice work, I very much enjoyed the development that is currently taking place, as Hitler gets some different opinions about various Slavs. We could perhaps see distinction being made between the "Civilized" and "un-Civilized" Slavs, as the propaganda machine starts to roll.

Also, it is a minor thing, but it should be noted that the M1895 Mannlicher Rifle, is not using Stripper-Clips, but instead is using En-Bloc clips, similar somewhat to later M1 Garand.

 

[Ficboy]

Nice work, I very much enjoyed the development that is currently taking place, as Hitler gets some different opinions about various Slavs. We could perhaps see distinction being made between the "Civilized" and "un-Civilized" Slavs, as the propaganda machine starts to roll.

Also, it is a minor thing, but it should be noted that the M1895 Mannlicher Rifle, is not using Stripper-Clips, but instead is using En-Bloc clips, similar somewhat to later M1 Garand.

Any Slavic nationalities that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire will be Sozinat Austria's most loyal allies. I can imagine that Banderist Ukraine, Arrow Cross Hungary and Ustasha Croatia would be very close to Hitler and collaborate on the war effort from concentration/extermination camps to sending supplies to fuel the Austrian war effort.

As for Sozinat Austria, Hitler's rise to power will be similar to OTL but different since he lives in his home country and not Germany. There won't be a Lebensraum and the New Order vision for the OSNVP/Sozinat Party will likely be a recreation of the old Austrian Empire albeit exterminationist and fascist.

 

[Triune Kingdom]

Any Slavic nationalities that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire will be Sozinat Austria's most loyal allies. I can imagine that Banderist Ukraine, Arrow Cross Hungary and Ustasha Croatia would be very close to Hitler and collaborate on the war effort from concentration/extermination camps to sending supplies to fuel the Austrian war effort.

As for Sozinat Austria, Hitler's rise to power will be similar to OTL but different since he lives in his home country and not Germany. There won't be a Lebensraum and the New Order vision for the OSNVP/Sozinat Party will likely be a recreation of the old Austrian Empire albeit exterminationist and fascist.

Thing about Ustaše, is that they were rather few in number IOTL, some 200 men in the Interwar period. I was thinking that it is more likely we see Military Junta, led by Slavko Kvaternik. He has a lot more pull (at least IOTL) then Ante Pavelić, considering his military record, not to mention that he could be seen as the best choice by the Sozinat, not some guy that most Croatia has not heard of before.

 

[Ficboy]

Thing about Ustaše, is that they were rather few in number IOTL, some 200 men in the Interwar period. I was thinking that it is more likely we see Military Junta, led by Slavko Kvaternik. He has a lot more pull (at least IOTL) then Ante Pavelić, considering his military record, not to mention that he could be seen as the best choice by the Sozinat, not some guy that most Croatia has not heard of before.

Kvartenik himself was one of the founders of the Ustasha so he could create the party with Ante Pavelic but this time he rules Croatia himself.

 

[NachoRaj]

Subbed

 

[Ficboy]

Anyway regarding how Adolf Hitler and the OSNVP/Sozinat Party gain power in Austria and create a one-party dictatorship it could be very different from Germany since his home country split up into different nations and didn't have to pay reparations and allow the French to occupy the Rhineland or more specifically its Austrian equivalent. Post-war Austria in OTL was slightly more stable than the Weimar Republic though it underwent its own political strife such as the July Revolt of 1927 and the Austrian Civil War of 1934 respectively. Therefore, the Sozinats may or may not launch a Munich Beer Hall Putsch-style event in Vienna or Salzburg but we do know that Hitler will write Der Kampf (TTL's Mein Kampf) so this could still happen. And as for the aforementioned events above the Sozinats could exploit the situation to not only rise in popularity but gain power and overthrow the Christian Social Party government whether it is through elections or a military coup. Plus, the Sozinats won't have Joseph Goebbels as their propaganda minister since he is living in Germany so somebody else will have to fulfill his role same with the infamous Julius Streicher and Der Sturmer.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Perhaps. The absence of the Nazi Party though means the DNVP will have more of a chance to tap into disenchanted German voters as the ultranationalist party then again it will face competition and might enter a coalition with other parties if necessary to gain power.

Except the “ultranationalist” bloc won’t get the DNVP to power. It was never a large enough grouping to win an election. They need to move towards the mainstream as they did OTL - as the NSDAP did far more effectively OTL.

 

[Ficboy]

Except the “ultranationalist” bloc won’t get the DNVP to power. It was never a large enough grouping to win an election. They need to move towards the mainstream SS they did OTL - as the NSDAP did far more effectively OTL.

Good point.

 

[Tanner151]

Nice work, I very much enjoyed the development that is currently taking place, as Hitler gets some different opinions about various Slavs. We could perhaps see distinction being made between the "Civilized" and "un-Civilized" Slavs, as the propaganda machine starts to roll.

Also, it is a minor thing, but it should be noted that the M1895 Mannlicher Rifle, is not using Stripper-Clips, but instead is using En-Bloc clips, similar somewhat to later M1 Garand.

Ah ok, thank you! Didn't know that so I will update that. Much appreciated.

Exactly, Hitler's relations with Slavs is very different. For example he won't hate Russians for being Slavic, he'll hate them for being Communist, though he may be distrustful of Russian Slavs due to the Great War. Now during the height of the alt-WW2 Hitler will be very big about pushing people into their own ethnic lands to make a Greater Austria for Austrians only, though some territory Austria annexes will be majority Slav and they will be treated like second-class citizens. Might make it to where they gain full citizenship if they pay more taxes and enter the military, because Hitler's Austria will need money and manpower desperately.

Any Slavic nationalities that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire will be Sozinat Austria's most loyal allies. I can imagine that Banderist Ukraine, Arrow Cross Hungary and Ustasha Croatia would be very close to Hitler and collaborate on the war effort from concentration/extermination camps to sending supplies to fuel the Austrian war effort.

As for Sozinat Austria, Hitler's rise to power will be similar to OTL but different since he lives in his home country and not Germany. There won't be a Lebensraum and the New Order vision for the OSNVP/Sozinat Party will likely be a recreation of the old Austrian Empire albeit exterminationist and fascist.

Many will be close or neutral, though some will be actively resistant to the Sozinats. Some of which may surprise you. From the prelude, I've hinted at a substantial Bosnian resistance, with Bosnia and Herzegovina will be known as the Bosnian Occupation Zone while Croatia and Serbia become their own countries, puppet states of the Austrian State.

Thing about Ustaše, is that they were rather few in number IOTL, some 200 men in the Interwar period. I was thinking that it is more likely we see Military Junta, led by Slavko Kvaternik. He has a lot more pull (at least IOTL) then Ante Pavelić, considering his military record, not to mention that he could be seen as the best choice by the Sozinat, not some guy that most Croatia has not heard of before.

Ustase will not be a big thing here. Maybe a far-right militia at best. I like the idea of Slavko Kvaternik being the leader of Croatia.

Subbed

Glad to have you here! Enjoy.

Anyway regarding how Adolf Hitler and the OSNVP/Sozinat Party gain power in Austria and create a one-party dictatorship it could be very different from Germany since his home country split up into different nations and didn't have to pay reparations and allow the French to occupy the Rhineland or more specifically its Austrian equivalent. Post-war Austria in OTL was slightly more stable than the Weimar Republic though it underwent its own political strife such as the July Revolt of 1927 and the Austrian Civil War of 1934 respectively. Therefore, the Sozinats may or may not launch a Munich Beer Hall Putsch-style event in Vienna or Salzburg but we do know that Hitler will write Der Kampf (TTL's Mein Kampf) so this could still happen. And as for the aforementioned events above the Sozinats could exploit the situation to not only rise in popularity but gain power and overthrow the Christian Social Party government whether it is through elections or a military coup. Plus, the Sozinats won't have Joseph Goebbels as their propaganda minister since he is living in Germany so somebody else will have to fulfill his role same with the infamous Julius Streicher and Der Sturmer.

Hitler's rise to power and his political career in general will be quite different. Yes he does become the dictator of Austria and makes Austria a great European power (notice how I did not say world power) but he career in the 1920s will be very different. As of now in my notes, Hitler does not even create the OSNVP until around 1923. He is a part of another party until he is forced to leave it.

Austria may not have been damaged on the same scale as Germany in terms of reparations, but their psyche is damaged nearly as bad. They had an empire for hundreds of years yet now they have been sliced and diced into a much smaller nation where most of its industry in Czechoslovakia and most of its agriculture in Hungary. For Austria under Hitler to be a credible threat, he either needs to ally, bind, or conquer these two areas.

The July Revolt will still happen, though it likely will be bloodier and Hitler will be involved in some way while the Austrian Civil War will either be butterflied or be changed significantly.

The Christian Social Party, the Social Democratic Party and the Communist Party are three of the big rivals of the OSNVP during the interwar years.

Very true, Goebbels will have his own political career in Germany which will be touched upon when we get there, but his charisma and energy for propaganda the Sozinats won't have. My placeholder for Propaganda and State Culture Minister (WiP title) is Hans Karl Breslauer. I was trying to find a successful and charismatic Austrian propagandist during the Nazi years and he was the only one I could find much information on. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know so I can research and see if they are a better fit.

Except the “ultranationalist” bloc won’t get the DNVP to power. It was never a large enough grouping to win an election. They need to move towards the mainstream SS they did OTL - as the NSDAP did far more effectively OTL.

The DNVP will not be the sole nor even dominant party of the reborn Imperial Germany. They will have a lot of influence, yes, but will be quite defanged of its more militant far-right members due to events in the 1930s, leaving many right-wing/monarchists to re-create the party to support the Hohenzollern Restoration.

The SDP will still be the largest political party in Hohenzollern Germany, though they will have transitioned to a bit more of a moderate rather than left-wing party, more of a center-left. Germany essentially becomes a constitutional monarchy with the SDP and DNVP being in a tense coalition that is "democratic" but the Kaiser will have some imperial power and the Chancellor is still a strong position. I'm debating whether to keep the position of Reich's President or to simply get rid of it, or to have the President be tied to the Kaiser. But people still vote for their Reichstag representatives. So there is democracy but very monarchist/right-wing, a semi-autocratic democracy.

Alfred Hugenberg will not be the leader of the DNVP or Chancellor of Germany during the 1930s/1940s. The Chancellor mentioned in the prelude for 1940 is another German politician that is DNVP monarchist but not dictatorial/authoritarian like Hugenberg would have been.

 

[Ficboy]

Ah ok, thank you! Didn't know that so I will update that. Much appreciated.

Exactly, Hitler's relations with Slavs is very different. For example he won't hate Russians for being Slavic, he'll hate them for being Communist, though he may be distrustful of Russian Slavs due to the Great War. Now during the height of the alt-WW2 Hitler will be very big about pushing people into their own ethnic lands to make a Greater Austria for Austrians only, though some territory Austria annexes will be majority Slav and they will be treated like second-class citizens. Might make it to where they gain full citizenship if they pay more taxes and enter the military, because Hitler's Austria will need money and manpower desperately.



Many will be close or neutral, though some will be actively resistant to the Sozinats. Some of which may surprise you. From the prelude, I've hinted at a substantial Bosnian resistance, with Bosnia and Herzegovina will be known as the Bosnian Occupation Zone while Croatia and Serbia become their own countries, puppet states of the Austrian State.



Ustase will not be a big thing here. Maybe a far-right militia at best. I like the idea of Slavko Kvaternik being the leader of Croatia.


Glad to have you here! Enjoy.



Hitler's rise to power and his political career in general will be quite different. Yes he does become the dictator of Austria and makes Austria a great European power (notice how I did not say world power) but he career in the 1920s will be very different. As of now in my notes, Hitler does not even create the OSNVP until around 1923. He is a part of another party until he is forced to leave it.

Austria may not have been damaged on the same scale as Germany in terms of reparations, but their psyche is damaged nearly as bad. They had an empire for hundreds of years yet now they have been sliced and diced into a much smaller nation where most of its industry in Czechoslovakia and most of its agriculture in Hungary. For Austria under Hitler to be a credible threat, he either needs to ally, bind, or conquer these two areas.

The July Revolt will still happen, though it likely will be bloodier and Hitler will be involved in some way while the Austrian Civil War will either be butterflied or be changed significantly.

The Christian Social Party, the Social Democratic Party and the Communist Party are three of the big rivals of the OSNVP during the interwar years.

Very true, Goebbels will have his own political career in Germany which will be touched upon when we get there, but his charisma and energy for propaganda the Sozinats won't have. My placeholder for Propaganda and State Culture Minister (WiP title) is Hans Karl Breslauer. I was trying to find a successful and charismatic Austrian propagandist during the Nazi years and he was the only one I could find much information on. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know so I can research and see if they are a better fit.



The DNVP will not be the sole nor even dominant party of the reborn Imperial Germany. They will have a lot of influence, yes, but will be quite defanged of its more militant far-right members due to events in the 1930s, leaving many right-wing/monarchists to re-create the party to support the Hohenzollern Restoration.

The SDP will still be the largest political party in Hohenzollern Germany, though they will have transitioned to a bit more of a moderate rather than left-wing party, more of a center-left. Germany essentially becomes a constitutional monarchy with the SDP and DNVP being in a tense coalition that is "democratic" but the Kaiser will have some imperial power and the Chancellor is still a strong position. I'm debating whether to keep the position of Reich's President or to simply get rid of it, or to have the President be tied to the Kaiser. But people still vote for their Reichstag representatives. So there is democracy but very monarchist/right-wing, a semi-autocratic democracy.

Alfred Hugenberg will not be the leader of the DNVP or Chancellor of Germany during the 1930s/1940s. The Chancellor mentioned in the prelude for 1940 is another German politician that is DNVP monarchist but not dictatorial/authoritarian like Hugenberg would have been.

For DNVP Chancellor of Germany, my guess is that its Oskar Hergt (the first leader), Kuno von Westrap (the leader before Hugenberg) or Clemens von Delbruck (the National Assembly representative). I doubt that the Serbians will ever be treated well given that the Black Hand killed Franz Ferdinand and I think a Serbian Occupation Zone is more likely. The Bosnians would be treated better at least and Kvartenik might form his own Croatian fascist party. Hans Karl Breslauer was part of OTL's Nazi Party and directed The City Without Jews so he would be a decent fit for the Sozinats.

 

[Truenorth14]

I understand Hitler ITTL wants an Austrian dominated nation perhaps he would establish a form of Danubian Federation that while is technically 1 nation it is subdivided into very autonomous states. Something where the Federation controls external diplomacy and a Common army is the major armed branch but the subservient states 'control' much of there internal policy and other things that Hitler is willing to let them do. They would still all be under Austrian control but the minorities would have enough autonomy to do what they want.

This might be completely against what you are aiming for but I figured I would at least offer my 2 cents

 

[Tanner151]

I understand Hitler ITTL wants an Austrian dominated nation perhaps he would establish a form of Danubian Federation that while is technically 1 nation it is subdivided into very autonomous states. Something where the Federation controls external diplomacy and a Common army is the major armed branch but the subservient states 'control' much of there internal policy and other things that Hitler is willing to let them do. They would still all be under Austrian control but the minorities would have enough autonomy to do what they want.

This might be completely against what you are aiming for but I figured I would at least offer my 2 cents

Hmm, that is actually an interesting idea.

So the Austrian State becomes the Danubian Federation when it starts conquering/uniting the former A-H Empire. I'm not opposed to this as a concept, and maybe some within the OSNVP propose this but I can't see Hitler really going for it. While he does have more favorable views of most Slavs, he is still a firm believer in the Aryan Race and though Slavs are classified as Aryan ITTL they are a lesser caliber than Germans/Nordics. So I will be going with the Austrian State as the official name of Sozinat Austria, though maybe further down the road once the story is further progressed and more fleshed out I'll rethink about renaming the Austrian State to the Danubian Federation.

Danubian Federation is making me thinking of the Federation from CoD Ghosts, perhaps ITTL's CoD equivalent that there would be a Federation-like enemy but instead of South America, it would be the Balkans. Speaking of pop culture ITTL, I'd love to see what a Star Wars analogue would develop.

Great point though, Truenorth14. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Most likely won't go that route, but it is interesting nonetheless.