Demographics of a surviving Austria-Hungary (again)

[CASSICTOR2]

Does anyone remember the "Black, Blanc, Beur" meme from the winning 1998 French team?" Austro, Slav, Champions" or something along those lines could develop. And the concordant national myth of "the perfect mix".

Remember when Chuck Norris meme before around in the Internet durante? Now imagine that but with DF team being OP as fuck in sport that it becomes the football version of The Boogeyman.

I think of the phrase "We are Danubian and We going to haunt your dreams" will be great tactic to make opposing team goes full fear in the World Cup

This is of course very much counter the trend of OTL 1920s ethnonationalism, which would make their successes stand out all the more.

I could honestly see European countries in 1920s despising and hating on the DF for being as they accused "Degenerate Mongoloid Mixed Nation" at the time.

This is not even commenting about Europe at the time were very common Antisemitic so seeing AH Jews doing so well will make them even more hated as they accused to be "Jewish control barbaric country".

Remember when Hitler's want to join WW1 he didn't joined the Austro-Hungarian army because he loathe differenced weak mixed races that filled with Slav and Jews.
This was a common view at the AH by many people in Europe at the time as Racism wasn't discredited at the time and with no WWII it will likely be longer in TL.

It will probably change in a modern day for the view of the DF but they probably take a long ass time to change the view on them as nothing more than "Mixed Nation"

In this regard, Wien may come to be seen sort of like a "New York of Europe", (as another poster suggested)

"Mom I am popular now* 😃

where ethnicities mix and interact and create a new melting-pot identity, "Austrian"

Although Vienna would be far from alone in this regard.

The Austrian identity will probably changes over timed with the large influence of people outside of Austria.
Even so I think that the Austrian Identity will probably still consider German but just have some traits that differentiate with Germans in GE. I have idea that I think would be interesting is the Austrian identity will be similar to the word Yankee in America why do you ask okay let me explain.

Outside of America, the war of the Yankees is used by people to refer to Americans especially in Mexico and the South.
But that's also one thing you need to consider and that is when you come to the US and you go closer closer to the main Atlantic it changed.
It's a firm more and more to people in New England: Region than the Northern States & Whole Country as a whole.

I think we can have that similar in the Austrian identity in DF as Countries call them "Austrian" for the pp who lives there. In the Federation however it changed to refer to people in Austria proper and have characteristic of being Germanic custom.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

What are the possibilities that the Swiss consitution has influence on this Federation? Aside from being a republic, and also aside from having equal representation in the upper house, Switzerland seems like a pretty promising model

Of course they will definitely modeled the Swiss federation into DF but on Steroids with the many ethnic groups Mixed together

 

[CASSICTOR2]

What will the AH Media would look like in TL? Entertainment Media such as books TV shows and animations novels all those kind of stuff in the Modern AH today

 

[Lalli]

Would Galicia still be the poorest province of the AH Empire?

Not necessarily. It really depends how things are handled there. My guess that Bosnia would be poorest region of Danubian Federation.

And since no communism and at least no OTL WW2 and Yugoslavian War DF would be much more prosperous than that region is in OTL.

 

[KingSweden24]

Ayyy another surviving AH demographic thread! I love these. Your calculations are pretty damn close (though slightly higher) than ones I ran for my own TL. I’m especially intrigued what a lot of these cities with 1.5-2x the population would be like in the global consciousness…

 

[marathag]

Outside of America, the war of the Yankees is used by people to refer to Americans especially in Mexico and the South.
But that's also one thing you need to consider and that is when you come to the US and you go closer closer to the main Atlantic it changed.
It's a firm more and more to people in New England: Region than the Northern States & Whole Country as a whole

When abroad in West Germany with a buddy from Texas, got disagreement with some locals, who started trash talking these 'Yankees'. Being from the North Star State and the Lone Star State, was wondering why they were bitching about somebody from New York or Connecticut.

 

[durante]

When abroad in West Germany with a buddy from Texas, got disagreement with some locals, who started trash talking these 'Yankees'. Being from the North Star State and the Lone Star State, was wondering why they were bitching about somebody from New York or Connecticut.

Super tangential, but the north American term "Hunk" (an attractive Male, especially if well muscled) actually comes from "Hungarian", via the derogatory term "bohunk" (which itself comes from Bohemians and Hungarians). My gido was old enough to have been called a bohunk as an insult.

 

[durante]

Less tangentially....

A surviving AH is going to be quite important academically.

The oldest universities of the following countries are in AH territory

-Austria (U of Vienna, oldest German language university)
-Hungary (no surprise), but also in Hungary is the oldest Technical University in the world
-Romania (Babes-Bolyai in Cluj)
-Poland (Jagiellonian in Krakow)
-Yugoslavia (Zagreb)
-Czech (Charles University in Prague)
-Ukraine (Unviersity of Lviv)

Again less surprising are oldest Slovak and Slovene universities, as well as Bosnian.

It seems like opportunities for a bilingual education would be unparalleled. Plus a relatively lower cost of living and more pleasant climate is attractive for students.

I would imagine people come from all over Europe to attend university in the federation.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

When abroad in West Germany with a buddy from Texas, got disagreement with some locals, who started trash talking these 'Yankees'. Being from the North Star State and the Lone Star State, was wondering why they were bitching about somebody from New York or Connecticut.

Super tangential, but the north American term "Hunk" (an attractive Male, especially if well muscled) actually comes from "Hungarian", via the derogatory term "bohunk" (which itself comes from Bohemians and Hungarians). My gido was old enough to have been called a bohunk as an insult.

AmeriChad listen to what you say and he doesn't like it one bit

Go to DF Now!

 

[Nivek]

A surviving AH is going to be quite important academically.

A surviving lwov school of mathematics plus Freud might be bigger ittl too.

 

[durante]

Running the numbers, there are approximately 2.2 million Canadians who claim ancestry from Austria-Hungary or component nationalities.

The USA, which has 9x the population, has about 5.5 million.

Both these figures are OTL.

In the USA, the over one-third of these are Jewish; in Canada, less than 10%. Jewish immigrants to the new world being more likely to ditch the national part of their origin, especially after a few generations.

It seems like Canada would have, proportionally, the largest "Austrian" diaspora in the world, excepting potentially recent economic migrants to neighbouring countries in Europe. (Again, also a multilingual constitutional monarchy where Catholicism is the largest religion, Canada may seem more familiar than the USA).

 

[CASSICTOR2]

I wonder what the Media of Survived AH will work and look like in TL?

 

[durante]

A surviving lwov school of mathematics plus Freud might be bigger ittl too.

Oooh plus nearby oilfields means plastics...so mathematics plus plastics equals...silicon valley of AH?

 

[Nivek]

Oooh plus nearby oilfields means plastics...so mathematics plus plastics equals...silicon valley of AH?

Very possible, Galicia was the heart of AH oil for a reason , even when those reserves ran out. That still left a lot of expertise available

 

[durante]

I wonder what the Media of Survived AH will work and look like in TL?

Perhaps this would be completed:

The Good Soldier Švejk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably a movie version or two made, and of course the flopping Oscar bait English language version "Shvike", from 2002 (or something).

 

[CASSICTOR2]

Perhaps this would be completed:

The Good Soldier Švejk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably a movie version or two made, and of course the flopping Oscar bait English language version "Shvike", from 2002 (or something).

I think that it would honestly interesting to speculate the Media of AH and by extend Eastern Europe without WW2 affected their psyche and population

 

[Lalli]

Perhaps this would be completed:

The Good Soldier Švejk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably a movie version or two made, and of course the flopping Oscar bait English language version "Shvike", from 2002 (or something).

Would that even be made since no WW1 or more plausible Central Powers winning WW1, unless author wasn't already pretty anti-Habsburg but that would be still unlikely since A-H would be victorious one and clearly humans wouldn't take Austrian army as joke?

 

[Jürgen]

Would that even be made since no WW1 or more plausible Central Powers winning WW1, unless author wasn't already pretty anti-Habsburg but that would be still unlikely since A-H would be victorious one and clearly humans wouldn't take Austrian army as joke?

I have always felt that the AH army was pretty much the same quality as the British in WWI, their main problems are that they are compared to the Germans and because of the multicultural nature of their empire they had less room for failure and opportunity to improve than the British without it having large domestic consequences.

 

[Fehérvári]

Would Galicia still be the poorest province of the AH Empire?

Even back then, Galicia wasn't the poorest, Bosnia was. Dalmatia and Bukovina were also more impoverished.

Bosnia starts from low, so it could maintain a tremendous rate of growth for quite some time, but its economy might grow too dependent on mining and heavy industry. Once post-industrialism hits, it might struggle to adapt. With its many mountains, valleys and rivers though, investing into hydropower is an option too. Bosnia could be able to live off of the export of electricity.

Improving infrastructure (ports and railway) would eventually improve Dalmatia's economic position, but the advent of mass tourism would cause an even bigger boom.

From what I know, Bukovina doesn't really have much going for it, and its extremely peripheral position doesn't help it either. I find it more than likely that the region could permanently become the poorest region of Danubia. Considering that this region would be attached to Galicia ITTL, this poverty would also influence the latter's economic metrics.

Galicia itself does possess qualities that could allow it to catch up to the wealthier parts of the country. Oil and high level education could form the base of Galician prosperity, but increased interaction and trade with a now independent and Habsburg-ruled "Congress Poland" could also prove to be meritous. The existence of enormous aristocratic estates would also make the mechanisation of agriculture easier. From that, the development of large scale food processing industries is just a step away.

Given all of this, Galicia wouldn't be poor in terms of raw numbers, but it would be still quite a bit behind the other member states. It would be overpopulated compared to its economic potential, and I have a feeling that wealth inequality would be significant.

Reference to how deadly a unified Austria-Hungary would be at football. You're right, it's more fair for the world if there are at least two teams.

Two teams minimum is almost 100% certain. I don't see Hungarians ever being willing to give up on their own team. And following Austria-Hungary's official transformation into the Danubian Confederation, I doubt that the new states would be content without their own teams as well.

For Croatia or Bohemia, they would be unlikely to get FIFA approval unless they have are part of a Trial Kingdom. Once there is an Imperial Diet, they would be considered one nation by FIFA.

So if the pentarchical structure precedes the establishment of an elective federal-level legislative body, then FIFA most probably wouldn't/couldn't protest the separate full membership of each nation, right? If so, I don't think the latter establishment of a federal assembly would stir trouble and lead to any changes.

This is of course very much counter the trend of OTL 1920s ethnonationalism, which would make their successes stand out all the more.

Even without a unified team, all five of the teams could be rather diverse, especially Hungary's.

What are the possibilities that the Swiss consitution has influence on this Federation? Aside from being a republic, and also aside from having equal representation in the upper house, Switzerland seems like a pretty promising model

Which part of the Swiss constitution?

 

[durante]

Even back then, Galicia wasn't the poorest, Bosnia was. Dalmatia and Bukovina were also more impoverished.

Bosnia starts from low, so it could maintain a tremendous rate of growth for quite some time, but its economy might grow too dependent on mining and heavy industry. Once post-industrialism hits, it might struggle to adapt. With its many mountains, valleys and rivers though, investing into hydropower is an option too. Bosnia could be able to live off of the export of electricity.

Improving infrastructure (ports and railway) would eventually improve Dalmatia's economic position, but the advent of mass tourism would cause an even bigger boom.

From what I know, Bukovina doesn't really have much going for it, and its extremely peripheral position doesn't help it either. I find it more than likely that the region could permanently become the poorest region of Danubia. Considering that this region would be attached to Galicia ITTL, this poverty would also influence the latter's economic metrics.

Galicia itself does possess qualities that could allow it to catch up to the wealthier parts of the country. Oil and high level education could form the base of Galician prosperity, but increased interaction and trade with a now independent and Habsburg-ruled "Congress Poland" could also prove to be meritous. The existence of enormous aristocratic estates would also make the mechanisation of agriculture easier. From that, the development of large scale food processing industries is just a step away.

Given all of this, Galicia wouldn't be poor in terms of raw numbers, but it would be still quite a bit behind the other member states. It would be overpopulated compared to its economic potential, and I have a feeling that wealth inequality would be significant.

Two teams minimum is almost 100% certain. I don't see Hungarians ever being willing to give up on their own team. And following Austria-Hungary's official transformation into the Danubian Confederation, I doubt that the new states would be content without their own teams as well.

So if the pentarchical structure precedes the establishment of an elective federal-level legislative body, then FIFA most probably wouldn't/couldn't protest the separate full membership of each nation, right? If so, I don't think the latter establishment of a federal assembly would stir trouble and lead to any changes.

Even without a unified team, all five of the teams could be rather diverse, especially Hungary's.

Which part of the Swiss constitution?

For the pentarchical structure, do each of the five lands maintain separate citizenship, as Austria and Hungary did?