Demographics of a surviving Austria-Hungary (again)

Frrf · Sep 2, 2022

Language-wise, most Austro-Hungarians are going to be multilingual. Once universal secondary education is achieved, all graduates are likely to be at minimum fluent in their home language/dialect and either Standard German or Hungarian. Germans and Hungarians are likely to learn one another's languages for fairly pragmatic reasons (Hungarians are advantaged by being able to talk to the other half of the Empire and also most of Central Europe, Germanophones are advantaged by being able to speak the other main language of the Empire, particularly if they want to work in the army or civil service).

A notable feature of primary education in OTL Austria-Hungary is that it was conducted in local languages - not out of any commitment to cultural diversity, but because there just weren't enough literate people at the time the system was being set up who could speak both German/Hungarian and the local language - this lead to the development of standard orthographies and literary forms for small languages like Slovenian (at the time usually called Carinthian) and Friulian in the late 18th/early 19th Centuries. By the 20th Century, this was too established to be easily shifted to German/Hungarian-only primary education.

Pragmatically, the individual components of this federalised Austria-Hungary are likely to also have official languages that are taught in schools, likely before German/Hungarian. At minimum, I'd expect Czech in Bohemia-Moravia, Polish and Ruthenian(Ukrainian) in Galicia-Lodomeria, Croatian in Croatia and Dalmatia (and possibly Istria and Bosnia), Serbian in the Banate (and possibly Bosnia), Romanian in Transylvania, Friulian in Friuli/Gorizia, Italian (or Venetan if they're trying to break links to Italy) in Trieste and Dalmatia, Slovak in OTL Slovakia (sooner or later Budapest is going to have to either grant it some degree of autonomy or else Vienna will split it off). Might also have some smaller groups like Rusyns, Romani, Aromanians etc get lucky and get some degree of official recognition.

Most likely, you end up with a system of mother-tongue education in primary school, National-language education in middle school, and German/Hungarian education in high school and university. The average citizen would be at least bilingual (Germans and Hungarians are likely to have the smallest linguistic repetoirs), while being able to speak 3 or 4 languages would be fairly unremarkable. Common foreign languages that might be taught as elective subjects could include Italian, Russian, French, English and Turkish, as well as the other national languages of the Empire.

(Gods, the Reichstag is likely to be as reliant on interpreters as the European Parliament is).

CASSICTOR2 · Sep 2, 2022

Frrf said:
(Gods, the Reichstag is likely to be as reliant on interpreters as the European Parliament is).

EU Parliament: OMG HOW MANY LANGUAGES DO WE NEED TO F#CKING INTERPRETS TO FUNCTION IN THIS UNION PARLIAMENT!!!!!! GOD DAMN IT!!!

The Average Danubian Citizen:

Fehérvári · Sep 2, 2022

Some update on the highspeed railway map:

Danubian Confederation HSR

Alternate history project: HSR of the Danubian Confederation

www.scribblemaps.com

I also updated the list of countries of TTL(2019):

#	Country	Population	GDP(PPP)($)	GDP(PPP)/Capita($)	GDP($)	GDP/Capita($)	Area(km2)	Pop. Density(/km2)
1.	United States	330 000 000	22 275 000 000 000	67 500	22 275 000 000 000	67 500	9 525 067	34,65
2.	China	1 445 000 000	28 900 000 000 000	20 000	18 062 500 000 000	12 500	11 332 728	127,51
3.	Russia	440 000 000	17 600 000 000 000	40 000	9 900 000 000 000	22 500	22 265 106	19,76
4.	India	1 745 000 000	17 450 000 000 000	10 000	8 725 000 000 000	5 000	4 341 965	401,89
5.	Japan	155 000 000	7 750 000 000 000	50 000	7 362 500 000 000	47 500	467 490	331,56
6.	Germany	112 500 000	6 750 000 000 000	60 000	6 187 500 000 000	55 000	543 444	207,01
7.	Danubian Federation	105 000 000	6 300 000 000 000	60 000	5 512 500 000 000	52 500	675 965	155,33
8.	United Kingdom	70 000 000	4 375 000 000 000	62 500	4 025 000 000 000	57 500	242 495	288,67
9.	Ottoman Empire	210 000 000	6 825 000 000 000	32 500	3 675 000 000 000	17 500	3 859 443	54,41
10.	France	70 000 000	3 850 000 000 000	55 000	3 500 000 000 000	50 000	626 183	111,79
11.	Korea	77 500 000	3 681 250 000 000	47 500	3 100 000 000 000	40 000	220 750	351,08
12.	Italy	62 500 000	3 125 000 000 000	50 000	2 812 500 000 000	45 000	301 340	207,41
13.	Brazil	210 000 000	3 675 000 000 000	17 500	2 100 000 000 000	10 000	8 515 767	24,66
14.	Indonesia	270 000 000	4 050 000 000 000	15 000	2 025 000 000 000	7 500	1 910 931	141,29
15.	Spain	50 000 000	2 375 000 000 000	47 500	2 000 000 000 000	40 000	505 992	98,82
16.	Canada	40 000 000	2 200 000 000 000	55 000	2 000 000 000 000	50 000	9 984 670	4,01
17.	Mexico	127 500 000	2 868 750 000 000	22 500	1 593 750 000 000	12 500	1 964 375	64,91
18.	Australia	27 500 000	1 581 250 000 000	57 500	1 512 500 000 000	55 000	7 692 024	3,58
19.	Netherlands	18 000 000	1 125 000 000 000	62 500	1 035 000 000 000	57 500	41 850	430,11
20.	Iran	82 500 000	2 062 500 000 000	25 000	1 031 250 000 000	12 500	1 648 195	50,05
21.	Argentina	47 500 000	1 425 000 000 000	30 000	950 000 000 000	20 000	2 780 400	17,08
22.	Poland	20 000 000	1 000 000 000 000	50 000	850 000 000 000	42 500	115 949	172,49
23.	Philippines	110 000 000	1 375 000 000 000	12 500	825 000 000 000	7 500	300 000	366,67
24.	Switzerland	8 500 000	616 250 000 000	72 500	722 500 000 000	85 000	41 284	205,89
25.	Thailand	70 000 000	1 400 000 000 000	20 000	700 000 000 000	10 000	513 120	136,42
26.	Romania	17 500 000	831 250 000 000	47 500	656 250 000 000	37 500	137 903	126,90
27.	Belgium	11 500 000	661 250 000 000	57 500	603 750 000 000	52 500	29 798	385,93
28.	South Africa	60 000 000	1 050 000 000 000	17 500	600 000 000 000	10 000	1 221 037	49,14
29.	Sweden	10 000 000	575 000 000 000	57 500	525 000 000 000	52 500	450 295	22,21
30.	Vietnam	102 500 000	1 025 000 000 000	10 000	512 500 000 000	5 000	331 212	309,47
31.	Nigeria	202 500 000	1 012 500 000 000	5 000	506 250 000 000	2 500	876 953	230,91
32.	Egypt	100 000 000	1 500 000 000 000	15 000	500 000 000 000	5 000	1 002 450	99,76
33.	Colombia	50 000 000	875 000 000 000	17 500	500 000 000 000	10 000	1 141 748	43,79
34.	Greece	12 500 000	562 500 000 000	45 000	468 750 000 000	37 500	129 109	96,82
35.	Chile	20 000 000	600 000 000 000	30 000	450 000 000 000	22 500	756 096	26,45
36.	Bulgaria	11 000 000	495 000 000 000	45 000	440 000 000 000	40 000	142 513	77,19
37.	Portugal	11 000 000	467 500 000 000	42 500	385 000 000 000	35 000	104 414	105,35
38.	Venezuela	30 000 000	600 000 000 000	20 000	375 000 000 000	12 500	916 445	32,74
39.	Denmark	5 500 000	343 750 000 000	62 500	343 750 000 000	62 500	43 094	127,63
40.	Algeria	45 000 000	675 000 000 000	15 000	337 500 000 000	7 500	2 381 741	18,89
41.	Norway	5 500 000	371 250 000 000	67 500	330 000 000 000	60 000	385 207	14,28
42.	Finland	6 000 000	330 000 000 000	55 000	315 000 000 000	52 500	360 000	16,67
43.	Ethiopia	120 000 000	600 000 000 000	5 000	300 000 000 000	2 500	1 104 300	108,67
44.	Serbia	8 000 000	340 000 000 000	42 500	260 000 000 000	32 500	61 427	130,24
45.	New Zealand	4 750 000	225 625 000 000	47 500	225 625 000 000	47 500	270 467	17,56
46.	Morocco	37 500 000	375 000 000 000	10 000	187 500 000 000	5 000	712 550	52,63
47.	Ireland	5 000 000	237 500 000 000	47 500	175 000 000 000	35 000	70 273	71,15
48.	Tanganyika	60 000 000	300 000 000 000	5 000	150 000 000 000	2 500	944 841	63,50
49.	Kongo	112 500 000	281 250 000 000	2 500	140 625 000 000	1 250	2 490 164	45,18
50.	Burma	55 000 000	412 500 000 000	7 500	137 500 000 000	2 500	261 227	210,54
51.	Kenya	50 000 000	375 000 000 000	7 500	125 000 000 000	2 500	580 367	86,15
52.	Uruguay	4 000 000	120 000 000 000	30 000	100 000 000 000	25 000	181 034	22,10
53.	Albania	3 000 000	105 000 000 000	35 000	67 500 000 000	22 500	20 304	147,75
54.	Cyprus	1 750 000	83 125 000 000	47 500	65 625 000 000	37 500	9251	189,17
55.	Iceland	340 000	21 250 000 000	62 500	22 950 000 000	67 500	103 000	3,30
56.	Montenegro	700 000	28 000 000 000	40 000	19 250 000 000	27 500	14 442	48,47
57.	Malta	500 000	23 750 000 000	47 500	17 500 000 000	35 000	316	1 582,28

Many countries are still missing, but the most notable ones are all there.

Fehérvári · Sep 2, 2022

Frrf said:
(Gods, the Reichstag is likely to be as reliant on interpreters as the European Parliament is).

CASSICTOR2 said:
EU Parliament: OMG HOW MANY LANGUAGES DO WE NEED TO F#CKING INTERPRETS TO FUNCTION IN THIS UNION PARLIAMENT!!!!!! GOD DAMN IT!!!

Hungary in itself is already quite wild. Máramaros county alone would already have 4 official languages!

CASSICTOR2 · Sep 2, 2022

Fehérvári said:
Some update on the highspeed railway map:

Danubian Confederation HSR

Alternate history project: HSR of the Danubian Confederation

www.scribblemaps.com

I also updated the list of countries of TTL(2019):

# Country Population GDP(PPP)($) GDP(PPP)/Capita($) GDP($) GDP/Capita($) Area(km2) Pop. Density(/km2)
1. United States 330 000 000 22 275 000 000 000 67 500 22 275 000 000 000 67 500 9 525 067 34,65
2. China 1 445 000 000 28 900 000 000 000 20 000 18 062 500 000 000 12 500 11 332 728 127,51
3. Russia 440 000 000 17 600 000 000 000 40 000 9 900 000 000 000 22 500 22 265 106 19,76
4. India 1 745 000 000 17 450 000 000 000 10 000 8 725 000 000 000 5 000 4 341 965 401,89
5. Japan 155 000 000 7 750 000 000 000 50 000 7 362 500 000 000 47 500 467 490 331,56
6. Germany 112 500 000 6 750 000 000 000 60 000 6 187 500 000 000 55 000 543 444 207,01
7. Danubian Federation 105 000 000 6 300 000 000 000 60 000 5 512 500 000 000 52 500 675 965 155,33
8. United Kingdom 70 000 000 4 375 000 000 000 62 500 4 025 000 000 000 57 500 242 495 288,67
9. Ottoman Empire 210 000 000 6 825 000 000 000 32 500 3 675 000 000 000 17 500 3 859 443 54,41
10. France 70 000 000 3 850 000 000 000 55 000 3 500 000 000 000 50 000 626 183 111,79
11. Korea 77 500 000 3 681 250 000 000 47 500 3 100 000 000 000 40 000 220 750 351,08
12. Italy 62 500 000 3 125 000 000 000 50 000 2 812 500 000 000 45 000 301 340 207,41
13. Brazil 210 000 000 3 675 000 000 000 17 500 2 100 000 000 000 10 000 8 515 767 24,66
14. Indonesia 270 000 000 4 050 000 000 000 15 000 2 025 000 000 000 7 500 1 910 931 141,29
15. Spain 50 000 000 2 375 000 000 000 47 500 2 000 000 000 000 40 000 505 992 98,82
16. Canada 40 000 000 2 200 000 000 000 55 000 2 000 000 000 000 50 000 9 984 670 4,01
17. Mexico 127 500 000 2 868 750 000 000 22 500 1 593 750 000 000 12 500 1 964 375 64,91
18. Australia 27 500 000 1 581 250 000 000 57 500 1 512 500 000 000 55 000 7 692 024 3,58
19. Netherlands 18 000 000 1 125 000 000 000 62 500 1 035 000 000 000 57 500 41 850 430,11
20. Iran 82 500 000 2 062 500 000 000 25 000 1 031 250 000 000 12 500 1 648 195 50,05
21. Argentina 47 500 000 1 425 000 000 000 30 000 950 000 000 000 20 000 2 780 400 17,08
22. Poland 20 000 000 1 000 000 000 000 50 000 850 000 000 000 42 500 115 949 172,49
23. Philippines 110 000 000 1 375 000 000 000 12 500 825 000 000 000 7 500 300 000 366,67
24. Switzerland 8 500 000 616 250 000 000 72 500 722 500 000 000 85 000 41 284 205,89
25. Thailand 70 000 000 1 400 000 000 000 20 000 700 000 000 000 10 000 513 120 136,42
26. Romania 17 500 000 831 250 000 000 47 500 656 250 000 000 37 500 137 903 126,90
27. Belgium 11 500 000 661 250 000 000 57 500 603 750 000 000 52 500 29 798 385,93
28. South Africa 60 000 000 1 050 000 000 000 17 500 600 000 000 000 10 000 1 221 037 49,14
29. Sweden 10 000 000 575 000 000 000 57 500 525 000 000 000 52 500 450 295 22,21
30. Vietnam 102 500 000 1 025 000 000 000 10 000 512 500 000 000 5 000 331 212 309,47
31. Nigeria 202 500 000 1 012 500 000 000 5 000 506 250 000 000 2 500 876 953 230,91
32. Egypt 100 000 000 1 500 000 000 000 15 000 500 000 000 000 5 000 1 002 450 99,76
33. Colombia 50 000 000 875 000 000 000 17 500 500 000 000 000 10 000 1 141 748 43,79
34. Greece 12 500 000 562 500 000 000 45 000 468 750 000 000 37 500 129 109 96,82
35. Chile 20 000 000 600 000 000 000 30 000 450 000 000 000 22 500 756 096 26,45
36. Bulgaria 11 000 000 495 000 000 000 45 000 440 000 000 000 40 000 142 513 77,19
37. Portugal 11 000 000 467 500 000 000 42 500 385 000 000 000 35 000 104 414 105,35
38. Venezuela 30 000 000 600 000 000 000 20 000 375 000 000 000 12 500 916 445 32,74
39. Denmark 5 500 000 343 750 000 000 62 500 343 750 000 000 62 500 43 094 127,63
40. Algeria 45 000 000 675 000 000 000 15 000 337 500 000 000 7 500 2 381 741 18,89
41. Norway 5 500 000 371 250 000 000 67 500 330 000 000 000 60 000 385 207 14,28
42. Finland 6 000 000 330 000 000 000 55 000 315 000 000 000 52 500 360 000 16,67
43. Ethiopia 120 000 000 600 000 000 000 5 000 300 000 000 000 2 500 1 104 300 108,67
44. Serbia 8 000 000 340 000 000 000 42 500 260 000 000 000 32 500 61 427 130,24
45. New Zealand 4 750 000 225 625 000 000 47 500 225 625 000 000 47 500 270 467 17,56
46. Morocco 37 500 000 375 000 000 000 10 000 187 500 000 000 5 000 712 550 52,63
47. Ireland 5 000 000 237 500 000 000 47 500 175 000 000 000 35 000 70 273 71,15
48. Tanganyika 60 000 000 300 000 000 000 5 000 150 000 000 000 2 500 944 841 63,50
49. Kongo 112 500 000 281 250 000 000 2 500 140 625 000 000 1 250 2 490 164 45,18
50. Burma 55 000 000 412 500 000 000 7 500 137 500 000 000 2 500 261 227 210,54
51. Kenya 50 000 000 375 000 000 000 7 500 125 000 000 000 2 500 580 367 86,15
52. Uruguay 4 000 000 120 000 000 000 30 000 100 000 000 000 25 000 181 034 22,10
53. Albania 3 000 000 105 000 000 000 35 000 67 500 000 000 22 500 20 304 147,75
54. Cyprus 1 750 000 83 125 000 000 47 500 65 625 000 000 37 500 9251 189,17
55. Iceland 340 000 21 250 000 000 62 500 22 950 000 000 67 500 103 000 3,30
56. Montenegro 700 000 28 000 000 000 40 000 19 250 000 000 27 500 14 442 48,47
57. Malta 500 000 23 750 000 000 47 500 17 500 000 000 35 000 316 1 582,28

Many countries are still missing, but the most notable ones are all there.

Wait a minute, Fehervari I seen Something interesting
-Ottoman Empire Surviving into Modern day
-Russia has Bigger population about 3x time and highly don’t have the Decline of her population in OTL
-UK and France has a bit more people than OTL Modern population
-Canada, Australia and New Zealand has a bit more pp than their OTL Counterparts
-Tanganyika was a Colonial name for Tanzania during the Age of Colonialism
-All of the Irrelevant Countries has a bigger population tha the former in OTL

It is a No World World scenarios isn’t it, mate

Fehérvári · Sep 3, 2022

CASSICTOR2 said:
It is a No World World scenarios isn’t it, mate

It's a WW1 negotiated peace and no WW2 scenario.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-Ottoman Empire Surviving into Modern day

I just couldn't come up with a good enough justification for it to break apart.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-Russia has Bigger population about 3x time and highly don’t have the Decline of her population in OTL

Russia lost Poland and Finland, but it kept itself together otherwise. The October Revolution didn't happen, neither did the civil war, but the February Revolution did. Russia is a republic ITTL with strong democratic institutions.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-UK and France has a bit more people than OTL Modern population

Because of no WW2, chiefly.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-Canada, Australia and New Zealand has a bit more pp than their OTL Counterparts

Yeah, further up in the thread it was suggested that British (and other European) migration to these places would remain higher with TTL's lower population losses.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-Tanganyika was a Colonial name for Tanzania during the Age of Colonialism

Tanganyika was the name of the independent country before it unified with Zanzibar. Tan stands for Tanganyika, zan stands for Zanzibar in Tanzania. ITTL, these countries never unified.

CASSICTOR2 said:
-All of the Irrelevant Countries has a bigger population tha the former in OTL

Third world countries benefitted greatly from the multipolar world order and the lack of Cold War dynamics.

CASSICTOR2 · Sep 3, 2022

I realize one thing that I seen no one talked about with Surviving AH.
What they will faced during the Spanish and Covid Pandemic? I see it would Worsen than the former states of Austria-hungry, they filled up people with different languages and cultures that will likely cause further deaths and confusion on the outbreaks.

Also the fact that Hungary 🇭🇺 in OTL we’re hits COVID hardas Only smaller nation and lesser Population.
Now imagine the Pandemic playing out with a bigger Hungarian population and have too Many Ethnic groups that will Miscommunicate and Dislike each other with some bullshit 1000 years ago. Especially on the Cities like Vienna, Budapest and Prague etc on the empire will be affected the Most with many patient being hospitalized and died in the 1918/2020 Pandemic.

This is not even talking about the possibility of a massive riot or social unrest across the empire of the after affects by the Covid Pandemic with Rioters attack dislike ethnic groups and looting across the cities. I not gonna be surprised that Danubian Federations will be the worst hits by Covid or the Spanish flu in Europe behind only Russia

Jürgen · Sep 3, 2022

Frrf said:
Language-wise, most Austro-Hungarians are going to be multilingual. Once universal secondary education is achieved, all graduates are likely to be at minimum fluent in their home language/dialect and either Standard German or Hungarian. Germans and Hungarians are likely to learn one another's languages for fairly pragmatic reasons (Hungarians are advantaged by being able to talk to the other half of the Empire and also most of Central Europe, Germanophones are advantaged by being able to speak the other main language of the Empire, particularly if they want to work in the army or civil service).

I suspect few Germans beside those already living in Transleithania will learn Hungarian. German is a language spoken across Europe, Hungarian is spoken in part of the empire and any Hungarian who mattered already spoke German as a second language. German speaking Austrians would likely learn French, Italian, English or Russians instead. Only Germans living in areas like Hungary, Croatia, Galizia or Bukovina would learn the other language spoken in the empire.

Fehérvári · Sep 3, 2022

CASSICTOR2 said:
I realize one thing that I seen no one talked about with Surviving AH.
What they will faced during the Spanish and Covid Pandemic? I see it would Worsen than the former states of Austria-hungry, they filled up people with different languages and cultures that will likely cause further deaths and confusion on the outbreaks.

Also the fact that Hungary 🇭🇺 in OTL we’re hits COVID hardas Only smaller nation and lesser Population.
Now imagine the Pandemic playing out with a bigger Hungarian population and have too Many Ethnic groups that will Miscommunicate and Dislike each other with some bullshit 1000 years ago. Especially on the Cities like Vienna, Budapest and Prague etc on the empire will be affected the Most with many patient being hospitalized and died in the 1918/2020 Pandemic.

This is not even talking about the possibility of a massive riot or social unrest across the empire of the after affects by the Covid Pandemic with Rioters attack dislike ethnic groups and looting across the cities. I not gonna be surprised that Danubian Federations will be the worst hits by Covid or the Spanish flu in Europe behind only Russia

I really don't think being multilingual has any kind of correlation with worse response to pandemics.

Hungary being so hardhit by COVID was/is mainly due to government mismanagement, demographics and the Hungarian population being in a horrible state of health in general.

Jürgen said:
I suspect few Germans beside those already living in Transleithania will learn Hungarian. German is a language spoken across Europe, Hungarian is spoken in part of the empire and any Hungarian who mattered already spoke German as a second language. German speaking Austrians would likely learn French, Italian, English or Russians instead. Only Germans living in areas like Hungary, Croatia, Galizia or Bukovina would learn the other language spoken in the empire.

Here's what I have in mind concerning the matter: Children in Danubian schools would need to start learning a language from the confederation from 1st grade, then they would have to pick an international language to learn in 6th grade and then they would need to choose yet another language (any kind) in 9th grade. What languages could the children actually select would depend on what the school in question could offer. Perhaps having to learn a fourth language in universities could also be a thing, but that could be too much already.

Jürgen · Sep 3, 2022

Fehérvári said:
I really don't think being multilingual has any kind of correlation with worse response to pandemics.

Hungary being so hardhit by COVID was/is mainly due to government mismanagement, demographics and the Hungarian population being in a horrible state of health in general.

Here's what I have in mind concerning the matter: Children in Danubian schools would need to start learning a language from the confederation from 1st grade, then they would have to pick an international language to learn in 6th grade and then they would need to choose yet another language (any kind) in 9th grade. What languages could the children actually select would depend on what the school in question could offer. Perhaps having to learn a fourth language in universities could also be a thing, but that could be too much already.

Yes but that would simply lead to them learning Italian, which is one of the languages spoken in the federation. Look at how unwilling the French-speaking Belgiums are to learn Dutch, and that‘s language spoken in the richer part of Belgium and by a majority of the population and also serve to give you some understanding of German.

Frrf · Sep 3, 2022

Jürgen said:
Yes but that would simply lead to them learning Italian, which is one of the languages spoken in the federation. Look at how unwilling the French-speaking Belgiums are to learn Dutch, and that‘s language spoken in the richer part of Belgium and by a majority of the population and also serve to give you some understanding of German.

There's also the example of Finland, which makes all students learn both Swedish and Finnish as a matter of nation-building. It is entirely within reason that the Austro-Hungarian government could make it a matter of policy to ensure that all citizens can speak both German and Hungarian in order to promote a shared Danubian identity.

CASSICTOR2 · Sep 3, 2022

Fehérvári said:
I really don't think being multilingual has any kind of correlation with worse response to pandemics.

Because they were Miscommunication between the people in AH, they will tried their best but always be Mistake. Danubian government have to coordinate the Province who have officially One or even four languages and that’s only for the province, not the whole State.

Like you own example, Máramaros county from the Survived AH had Four Official language and definitely has more Unofficial languages by other peoples meaning they will Difficult to manage a Pandemic with that type of Condition specially in Europe.

Fehérvári said:
Hungary being so hardhit by COVID was/is mainly due to government mismanagement, demographics and the Hungarian population being in a horrible state of health in general.

Wouldn’t the Danubian be the same thing for the Pandemic? Especially the government from the 14 Different languages will be confusing as hell to Organized.
Population of DF being Large as 105 Million pp with Different Cultures will probably still have buffed to each other ( Hungarian v. Romanian, Austrian v. Serbs, Slovak v. Hungarian etc etc etc ) highly blame it each other for “fault” for the Pandemic.

This will make DF a real test for Organize and be Exclusive force against the 2020 Pandemic especially with Ethnic groups will want to blame and attack each other.
People will do desperate and do anything to not be alone in Pandemic as we see in Summer 2020, Danubian will want attack each other on Ethnic ground like in Yugoslavia before it collapse.

And I’m not claiming that this will make AH into Total Collapse, but it will probably Social Unrest across DF like this and it will be a Challenge to control them with each had Different Languages.

NedStark · Sep 4, 2022

CASSICTOR2 said:
Because they were Miscommunication between the people in AH, they will tried their best but always be Mistake. Danubian government have to coordinate the Province who have officially One or even four languages and that’s only for the province, not the whole State.

Like you own example, Máramaros county from the Survived AH had Four Official language and definitely has more Unofficial languages by other peoples meaning they will Difficult to manage a Pandemic with that type of Condition specially in Europe.

Wouldn’t the Danubian be the same thing for the Pandemic? Especially the government from the 14 Different languages will be confusing as hell to Organized.
Population of DF being Large as 105 Million pp with Different Cultures will probably still have buffed to each other ( Hungarian v. Romanian, Austrian v. Serbs, Slovak v. Hungarian etc etc etc ) highly blame it each other for “fault” for the Pandemic.

This will make DF a real test for Organize and be Exclusive force against the 2020 Pandemic especially with Ethnic groups will want to blame and attack each other.
People will do desperate and do anything to not be alone in Pandemic as we see in Summer 2020, Danubian will want attack each other on Ethnic ground like in Yugoslavia before it collapse.

And I’m not claiming that this will make AH into Total Collapse, but it will probably Social Unrest across DF like this and it will be a Challenge to control them with each had Different Languages.

And politically, it would be very unstable. It would be Belgium on steroid - AH would not able to assemble a governing political majority to implement a long-term set of economic policies - especially the less popular ones. The ability to rely a stable political majority to pass long-term economic legislations was a key factor driving Japan's economic miracle.

Imagine economic policies running into a political quagmire in the midst of the TTL equivalent of Great Depression.

CASSICTOR2 · Sep 4, 2022

NedStark said:
And politically, it would be very unstable. It would be Belgium on steroid - AH would not able to assemble a governing political majority to implement a long-term set of economic policies - especially the less popular ones. The ability to rely a stable political majority to pass long-term economic legislations was a key factor driving Japan's economic miracle.

Imagine economic policies running into a political quagmire in the midst of the TTL equivalent of Great Depression.

Covid Pandemic will just expose how vulnerable AH really is and how Badly it need to Federalized into United Forced as they pretty much arguing about Political an Ethnic division while Covid-19 likely killing several Danubian civilian in the Hundred of thousands. That’s why I said it will likely be the most devastating hit by Covid or the Spanish flu aside only Russia in Europe

Lalli · Sep 4, 2022

Frrf said:
There's also the example of Finland, which makes all students learn both Swedish and Finnish as a matter of nation-building. It is entirely within reason that the Austro-Hungarian government could make it a matter of policy to ensure that all citizens can speak both German and Hungarian in order to promote a shared Danubian identity.

It should be noticed that in surviving Austria-Hungary would be several official languages. It would be impossible enforce every school child learn German, Hungarian, Czechian, Polish, Croatian etc. So I guess that regarding langauges all children and youngs are mandated to learn at least some level of German and perhaps some another optional language. But not way that them should learn every langauge of the empire.

Fehérvári · Sep 4, 2022

Jürgen said:
Yes but that would simply lead to them learning Italian, which is one of the languages spoken in the federation. Look at how unwilling the French-speaking Belgiums are to learn Dutch, and that‘s language spoken in the richer part of Belgium and by a majority of the population and also serve to give you some understanding of German.

Italian would probably be much more popular, but the amount of people learning Hungarian as their first or third choice wouldn't be insignificant, imo. Alternatively, Hungarian (and also other languages of Danubia) could be made more popular if the third chosen language also has to be from the confederation.

Jürgen said:
Look at how unwilling the French-speaking Belgiums are to learn Dutch, and that‘s language spoken in the richer part of Belgium and by a majority of the population and also serve to give you some understanding of German.

Where can I read up on this?

Frrf said:
There's also the example of Finland, which makes all students learn both Swedish and Finnish as a matter of nation-building. It is entirely within reason that the Austro-Hungarian government could make it a matter of policy to ensure that all citizens can speak both German and Hungarian in order to promote a shared Danubian identity.

That would be a hard sell, imo, especially after Bohemia, Galicia and Croatia's ascension to coequal status.

CASSICTOR2 said:
Because they were Miscommunication between the people in AH, they will tried their best but always be Mistake. Danubian government have to coordinate the Province who have officially One or even four languages and that’s only for the province, not the whole State.

I understand what you're trying to say, but OTL data do not support this. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
The most affected countries are overwhelmingly monolingual nation states.

CASSICTOR2 said:
Like you own example, Máramaros county from the Survived AH had Four Official language and definitely has more Unofficial languages by other peoples meaning they will Difficult to manage a Pandemic with that type of Condition specially in Europe.

Why would it be hard though? Issuing the same directives in multiple languages is not rocket science.

CASSICTOR2 said:
Wouldn’t the Danubian be the same thing for the Pandemic?

That would depend on the age structure, obesity rate, the smoking and drinking habits of the population, and the quality of healthcare accessible to the masses.

NedStark said:
And politically, it would be very unstable. It would be Belgium on steroid - AH would not able to assemble a governing political majority to implement a long-term set of economic policies - especially the less popular ones. The ability to rely a stable political majority to pass long-term economic legislations was a key factor driving Japan's economic miracle.

That's a fair argument, but instead of Belgium, I think Danubia on federal level would function more like the EU does. Parties from various countries would band together and form party families. If not else, that would atleast address the legislative side of things.

On the other hand, I imagine most domestic competences would remain with the member states. The federal level would be primarily concerned with foreign policy, defence, law harmonisation and special issues requiring federal response.

Honestly, it's really best to think about Danubia as a mini-EU with a unified army and foreign policy, and without veto powers for member states.

NedStark said:
Imagine economic policies running into a political quagmire in the midst of the TTL equivalent of Great Depression.

instead of political quagmire blocking response, member states pursuing different economic policies to address the crisis would be the more likely issue, imo.

JanWellem · Sep 4, 2022

Lalli said:
So I guess that regarding langauges all children and youngs are mandated to learn at least some level of German and perhaps some another optional language. But not way that them should learn every langauge of the empire.

Indeed, there are only so many foreign languages the average pupil can learn. And keep in mind that Latin and French were mandatory foreign languages in higher secondary education in much of Europe up until at least the 1960s with English starting to replace French during the third quarter of the 20th century.

Tibi088 · Sep 5, 2022

About the highspeed rail: Isnt the Chinese network massively in the red - indicating its really only worth to build one between the biggest and richest of cities. So as widespread a system as envisioned here would put the state budget in a very bad position.

Fehérvári · Sep 5, 2022

Tibi088 said:
About the highspeed rail: Isnt the Chinese network massively in the red - indicating its really only worth to build one between the biggest and richest of cities. So as widespread a system as envisioned here would put the state budget in a very bad position.

I see. In your opinion, what size a city would need to be to qualify becoming a destination?

Nivek · Sep 5, 2022

Fehérvári said:
I see. In your opinion, what size a city would need to be to qualify becoming a destination?

Besides the royal/ducal capitols the route would feed with German and ottoman lines in part of a mega orient express if anything in the austro-bohemian-Ilyrrian network would be the more moved,the same Budapest to Trieste