Democracies beat Nazis

WI 1) Generals persuade Hitler to postpone Barborssa until April 1942 (giving a chance to have a longer campaign)

2) Hitler still declares war on the US after Pearl Harbor

3) Hitler dies between the declaration of war on the US and starting the war on Russia.

4) New Nazi leadership decides 1 War at a time.


I believe that US industrial production and UK and Imperial and Commonwealth numbers will eventually defeat the Nazis, but it would take a long time.

I am also guessing that whilst tens of thousands of Jewish and Romany people woulD be murdered and all would be oppressed there would likely not be the industrial genocide of OTL.


I wonder if people would wonder more about the justification of the war.
 
Ok, if Germany hasn't attacked the Soviet Union but does have its forces prepared for April 1942 then both the battle of Britain and the Northern African campaign get the same outcome, The nazi's loose. Because with the Americans in the war, Operation torch is going to happen. Italy gets blasted out of the mediterranean by the end of 1942.

Nothing the Germans can do about that.

If Hitler dies in January/March 1942, Göring or Himmler take over. If they decide to fully scrap Barbarossa, the Soviets are gonna notice sudden retreat of German ground forces at the border. The Germans would then strengthen the Atlantik wall, and the allies would have a very difficult time starting an invasion into france. They might decide to go through Italy, a bloody long campaign will be ahead. The Soviets might decide to attack, synchronized with an invasion of the Allies in Italy or Normandy. The Allies might even land in Greece, or pressure Turkey into joining. All of this is very far fetched speculation though. But with the USA in the war, victory for the allies is sure. no clue what the years would be.

If Himmler takes over the holocaust would be continued as OTL.
 

jeffking

Banned
the moment Hitler halted the Panzers on the outskirts of Dunkirk was when the war was lost forever.
 
But with the USA in the war, victory for the allies is sure. no clue what the years would be.

August 1945. A rational German leadership seeks surrender terms once nuclear weapons start going off. An irrational one tries to hold on a bit longer, but gets bombed into ash and glass nevertheless.
 
the moment Hitler halted the Panzers on the outskirts of Dunkirk was when the war was lost forever.

Incorrect. German forces halted becaise they were low on supplies and needed to reorganize before launching another attack.

Also, if Germany doesn't attack in 1941, the Soviet Union will make its move in 1942.
 
August 1945. A rational German leadership seeks surrender terms once nuclear weapons start going off. An irrational one tries to hold on a bit longer, but gets bombed into ash and glass nevertheless.

Well like Julian said, the chance of the Soviets attacking is pretty high.
 
Hitler postpones Barbarossa until 1942 when the new, improved, more powerful Red Army captures Ploesti and cuts off his major source of oil supplies in a rapid mechanized campaign, one that puts the Germans in a frenzy that makes them ripe for the Soviets' pickings. End result of this? Soviet Empire replaces a Nazi one, no Holocaust as this time it's not the Germans attacking the Soviets but the other way around. Hitler's atrocities in Poland will become standard Soviet propaganda and the democracies will attribute a great deal of it to Communist justification of imposition of their dictatorships across Central Europe until after the fall of the Iron Curtain when it turns out that nope, Hitler really did/was shooting people and creating mass graves all over Poland.....
 
In OTL Stalin seemed to actually like and trust Hitler. He ignored evidence of the planned attack. If the Nazis moved forces away I do not think he woudl gamble on attacking the Nazis, at least not until it was clear that they had lost, which might not be till 1947

Of course the Atomic Bomb is only useful if you have a missile launcher or Air Supremacy, which I fear would take the Western Allies until the late 1940s to manage
 
Personally I think that the Germans would have tried to find a way to nullify American superiority by continuing an all out submarine offensive in the Atlantic. While it is all well and good hypothesising that the Americans could/would have tipped the balance, without the Soviet pressure on the Eastern front, the Germans would have been able to throw the Allies back into the sea in either Italy or Western Europe, as the Generals would have had the wherewithall to release the needed troops at the right.

Even with nuclear weapons, I think the outcome of the war would have been a Third Reich in Western Europe, lasting until the cult of personality collapsed.
 
In OTL Stalin seemed to actually like and trust Hitler. He ignored evidence of the planned attack. If the Nazis moved forces away I do not think he woudl gamble on attacking the Nazis, at least not until it was clear that they had lost, which might not be till 1947

Of course the Atomic Bomb is only useful if you have a missile launcher or Air Supremacy, which I fear would take the Western Allies until the late 1940s to manage


Stalin liked a lot of people right up until the point he stopped liking them. Then they died.

Frankly speaking the Soviets wouldnt move until the Nazis were already in trouble. Stalin always liked to attack a weakened target. He was utterly evil not a complusive warmogering luntic.
 
Stalin liked a lot of people right up until the point he stopped liking them. Then they died.

Frankly speaking the Soviets wouldnt move until the Nazis were already in trouble. Stalin always liked to attack a weakened target. He was utterly evil not a complusive warmogering luntic.

Stalin approved offensive plans against Germany which were to be carried out in 1942, after the Timoshenko Reforms finished. He recognized that Hitler wanted to betray him and planned to appease Hitler until 1942 when the Red Army was fully mobilized and rebuilt, and then strike.
 
Top