Delay WW2 to 1950

So...how can we delay WW2 to the middle of the 20th century?

How would the war play out? How would technology change? Would the Axis(assuming it still existed in a recognizable form) do better? Or would it do worse?

Thoughts?
 
So...how can we delay WW2 to the middle of the 20th century?

How would the war play out? How would technology change? Would the Axis(assuming it still existed in a recognizable form) do better? Or would it do worse?

Thoughts?
Well you need a pod before 1935 to see a Germany takes on France and UK war in the 1950s.

The reason being that Germany was on the brink of economic collapse in 1939 because they had done a 4 or 5 year rush of spending every penny on rearmanent to get a temporary advantage over France and the UK.

So assuming you have the right pod Germany can fight a war in 1950. No one can tell you what will happen. Can Germany pull off the near miracle they did in 1940 and take out France with a plan so crazy it shouldn't have worked in a matter of weeks with less losses than hundred of days in ww1.

Remember if Germany had of invaded France in oil in either 1938 or 1941 I believe they would have been stomped.

Obviously with a 1950 war German leadership is significantly different. Could they have a nuclear monopoly in a world where tube alloys was not handed to USA and Manhattan program is a footnote with a pittance of resources.

Who knows
 
Well you need a pod before 1935 to see a Germany takes on France and UK war in the 1950s.

The reason being that Germany was on the brink of economic collapse in 1939 because they had done a 4 or 5 year rush of spending every penny on rearmanent to get a temporary advantage over France and the UK.

So assuming you have the right pod Germany can fight a war in 1950. No one can tell you what will happen. Can Germany pull off the near miracle they did in 1940 and take out France with a plan so crazy it shouldn't have worked in a matter of weeks with less losses than hundred of days in ww1.

Remember if Germany had of invaded France in oil in either 1938 or 1941 I believe they would have been stomped.

Obviously with a 1950 war German leadership is significantly different. Could they have a nuclear monopoly in a world where tube alloys was not handed to USA and Manhattan program is a footnote with a pittance of resources.

Who knows
How would the Soviets and Italians have managed?
 

SsgtC

Banned
Obviously with a 1950 war German leadership is significantly different. Could they have a nuclear monopoly in a world where tube alloys was not handed to USA and Manhattan program is a footnote with a pittance of resources.

Germany wasn't even remotely close to weapon and in fact believed a nuclear weapon to be physically impossible to build. By 1950, the UK, US and France would have all likely developed the bomb. At least to Fat Man and Little Boy standards
 
Germany wasn't even remotely close to weapon and in fact believed a nuclear weapon to be physically impossible to build. By 1950, the UK, US and France would have all likely developed the bomb. At least to Fat Man and Little Boy standards
If WW2 itself is delayed why would nuclear weapons research continue at the same level?
 
Germany wasn't even remotely close to weapon and in fact believed a nuclear weapon to be physically impossible to build. By 1950, the UK, US and France would have all likely developed the bomb. At least to Fat Man and Little Boy standards
As I said to avoid an economic collapse from ramping up military you need a pod before 1935 and a completely different leadership which could mean listening to different scientists. Not saying it's guaranteed but it's possible.

Also in peace time conditions I wouldn't expect anyone to reach nuclear bomb until the early 50s unless they are planning for a likely war and need to push research.
 
As I said to avoid an economic collapse from ramping up military you need a pod before 1935 and a completely different leadership which could mean listening to different scientists. Not saying it's guaranteed but it's possible.

Also in peace time conditions I wouldn't expect anyone to reach nuclear bomb until the early 50s unless they are planning for a likely war and need to push research.
Based upon 1930s weapons development where do you think had the war been delayed weapons technology would look like in 1950?
 

Wallet

Banned
Well....the British and French could allow Germany to invade Poland and continue appeasement. Maybe Stalin for some crazy reason joins the Axis and Britain and France don't want to risk fighting both Germany and the Soviets.

Eastern Europe is completely subjugated and Hitler loots the occupied or puppet governments to keep the German economy afloat. Let's say an isolationist wins the US election of 1940 because FDR doesn't run. So the British and French don't want to intervene.

Stalin finally finished rebuilding his army in 1945 and when Hitler demands the German speaking parts of Switzerland in 1947, the British and French finally put their foot down and declare war. Stalin backstabs Hitler and attacks.

The French, now under De Gulle, stop the Germans at Paris because Hitler is distracted in the East. He signs an armistice with the British and French. The Germans are pushed out of France but hold their border. The Soviets reach German boader when Hitler uses chemical weapons and push the soviets back. The western allies redeclare war in 1950.
 

SsgtC

Banned
If WW2 itself is delayed why would nuclear weapons research continue at the same level?

It's not. Continuing at OTL levels gives the US the bomb by early 45. I specifically stated that it is probable that the US, UK and France would have developed 1st generation Nuclear weapons by 1950. Maybe I should have been more clear. I think the three countries, working either together (more likely) or working separately (less likely) would each have built a small number of 15-25kt air dropped weapons beginning in the 1949-50 timeframe. Sooner if they're afraid of Germany developing one first. But that really depends on the state of their intelligence assets in Germany
 
It's not. Continuing at OTL levels gives the US the bomb by early 45. I specifically stated that it is probable that the US, UK and France would have developed 1st generation Nuclear weapons by 1950. Maybe I should have been more clear. I think the three countries, working either together (more likely) or working separately (less likely) would each have built a small number of 15-25kt air dropped weapons beginning in the 1949-50 timeframe. Sooner if they're afraid of Germany developing one first. But that really depends on the state of their intelligence assets in Germany
If the forties are a war free decade(tensions and crises aside) why would they all invest in nukes which was hypothetical and resource intensive at the time?
 

SsgtC

Banned
If the forties are a war free decade(tensions and crises aside) why would they all invest in nukes which was hypothetical and resource intensive at the time?

For there same reason that you develop any other weapon. It gives you an edge of you're ahead, and gives you parity if you're behind. It's "just in case" thinking. Basically, "they may have it, or they REALLY want it, so we better have it too."
 
It's not. Continuing at OTL levels gives the US the bomb by early 45. I specifically stated that it is probable that the US, UK and France would have developed 1st generation Nuclear weapons by 1950. Maybe I should have been more clear. I think the three countries, working either together (more likely) or working separately (less likely) would each have built a small number of 15-25kt air dropped weapons beginning in the 1949-50 timeframe. Sooner if they're afraid of Germany developing one first. But that really depends on the state of their intelligence assets in Germany
I can't see joint nuclear development without a clear and present danger indicating that all will be under threat soon. If there is joint development I can see first generation nuclear technology by 1950.

I can't see either of three countries being willing to invest sufficiently to reach nuclear technology by 1950 given peace time conditions. Maybe if Britain rolls over on Poland and there is an uneasy peace from 1939 to 1950 but I don't think that's possible. Germany would collapse from the inside.
 
Keep Weimar running until 1949 or 1950, keep Hitler in jail until then. Problem is, by 1950 with reparations likely canceled or otherwise managed, Germany will likely be prosperous and democratic, with no despair to drive the populism necessary for Hitler's rise.
 
Keep Weimar running until 1949 or 1950, keep Hitler in jail until then. Problem is, by 1950 with reparations likely canceled or otherwise managed, Germany will likely be prosperous and democratic, with no despair to drive the populism necessary for Hitler's rise.
Well I have to assume Nazi Germany exists still but hasn't started WW2.
 
Well he was born in the late 1890s so I don't see why he couldn't make at least 60

He was one sick dude, in the physiological sense of the word. Parkinson's disease would be eating him age 60. You cant really have Nazi Germany survive til 1950 without going to war, they had crash industrialized to get the country on war footing to face Britain and France. The Nazis were terrible economic managers, they would have fucked the Germany economy and probably would be ousted long before 1950. Hitler and the Nazis legitimized themselves through military victories and kept the economy afloat by plundering their neighbors, they imposed massive taxation on the occupied people and took everything of value back to Germany (art, gold reserves, industrial items etc). No sweeping military victories means they aren't tolerated for long. They basically had to start when they did.
 
The only way to delay WWII that long is for Hitler to never assume power and for the Soviets to invade Europe under an increasingly paranoid Stalin.
 
The only way to delay WWII that long is for Hitler to never assume power and for the Soviets to invade Europe under an increasingly paranoid Stalin.

That was more what I was thinking also, a Red Alert 2 style scenario where Hitler never takes power, Germany remains a democracy or more likely a stock standard right wing autocracy (more bark than proverbial bite) and you have a powerful USSR have a go at Europe.
 
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