Decolonization in a world without WW2

WW2 was a major factor in helping European colonies in securing independence. The devastation left most European nations with colonial empires with very little money to upkeep their colonies.

But if WW2 never happened, what would decolonization look like? Would the US still adopt an anti-colonial stance? What would independence movements look like? And what would life be like in Europe and their colonies?

I'm also interested in what the movement in India would look like, since Britain could divert more resources to the Subcontinent, would the movement go violent after Gandhi's death?
 
Without WW2, add 10 to 30 years to when most of the colonies got independence. WW2 knackered the economies of Europe and the Japanese proved that non whites could beat white soldiers without defeat not long after and made people more likely to revolt against their colonial masters.
 
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It is my understanding that the American OSS armed and trained various local groups to fight the Japanese. These groups kept their weapons and would then be the core of the anti-colonial forces.

I heard a saying from an old solider. Be careful who you arm today, since you may be fighting them tomorrow.
 
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To me, the first big question is India. OTOH, India was clearly on their path to independence pre-WW2, and likely to take at least Malaya (including Singapore) and Burma with them, given how much India leaving the Empire would mess up British logistics in the region.
The decision to decolonize India in 1947 was made by the Attlee government, a Labour party ministry. Labour had been pro-Indian independence (though not clear on what precisely that meant...) since the 1920s, and even without WW2 some Labour ministries were probably inevitable, so Indian independence might not be too delayed.
However, the decision to leave India was very much driven by Britain's parlous financial situation and the Cripps Mission's wartime public promise of independence for India postwar. Additionally, the British support for the Muslim League, driven in part by their support for the war effort, was directly linked to the creation of Pakistan. So India's decolonization would likely have looked very different, at least in form, and quite likely also somewhat in timing.

The second big question is communist party operations in Asia- meaning, China. If nationalist China does not go communist, communist parties in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Malaya will get much less external support. Korea is a special case, since it will still be colonized by Japan iTTL, but its communist movement under the Kims is also likely greatly weakened unless China goes red.

Another question: Different European nations took different attitudes towards attempting to retain colonies postwar, with some like Portugal much more determined not to cede any territory than others (though even countries like the Netherlands or Belgium were only grudgingly willing to decolonize after it became clear that the costs vastly outweighed any benefits). Where on this spectrum Italy and Japan, which had all of their colonies taken from them during the war, would fall is unknown; and would clearly effect how decolonization proceeds in Libya, Ethiopia, Korea and Taiwan iTTL.
 
The second big question is communist party operations in Asia- meaning, China. If nationalist China does not go communist, communist parties in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Malaya will get much less external support. Korea is a special case, since it will still be colonized by Japan iTTL, but its communist movement under the Kims is also likely greatly weakened unless China goes red.
Well without WWII China probably wont go Communist and, likely most of Asia still stays in the hands of the French and British. Korea would stay under Japanese influence.
 
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WW2 was a major factor in helping European colonies in securing independence. The devastation left most European nations with colonial empires with very little money to upkeep their colonies.

But if WW2 never happened, what would decolonization look like? Would the US still adopt an anti-colonial stance? What would independence movements look like? And what would life be like in Europe and their colonies?

I'm also interested in what the movement in India would look like, since Britain could divert more resources to the Subcontinent, would the movement go violent after Gandhi's death?
Probably adding a decade or two to the process makes the most sense.

The Mau-Mau Rebellion or similar movements were inevitable, but not their widespread success in their exact moment. If any of the colonizing powers play their cards right, they might get around creating a situation not unlike the relationship between the USA and South America.

The USA probably would still become anti-colonialist for practical reasons, I think.
 
According to Frederick Cooper, the main political leaders in French Africa (Senghor, Houphouët-Boigny...) didn't want a full independance, but advocated a kind of federation. But the disagreement between the partisans and the opponents of a united West Africa lead the project of French Community to a failure (Houphouët-Boigny didn't wanted the rich Côte d'Ivoire to pay for the enclaved countries).

Gabon even asked to become a french oversea department...

Without WW2, or with a rapid victory over Germany, the transformation of the Empire into a federation of States could have been possible.

However, Algeria is a much more complicated case.
 
On the other hand, European countries wouldn't cling to the imperial glory to compensate military humiliations and downgrading by the US and USSR. Economists and journalists pointing out the costs of colonization (like Cartier in France) would've had a broader audience.
 
There would be lots of semi-sovereign or autonomous territories like Greenland, Puerto Rico, and Hong Kong all over the map. Various islands in the Indonesian archipelago like West Papua would either be independent or some sort of commonwealth within a United Kingdom of the Netherlands. It would be much harder to lay out where the borders of a European Union ends on the world map.

I think an interesting question here is the shape of the British Empire after Indian independence. Without America becoming the world's premier naval power, would the Gulf States (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE) still be part of a smaller, more tightly integrated British Commonwealth and host to some of the Royal Navy's most important bases East of Suez?
For All Time isn't really a decolonization focused timeline, but in that TL Chenua Achebe is the Governor General of Nigeria, which is still under British rule in the late 20th century.

I think the interesting question here is what countries what be better off in this timeline? This ATL would be almost utopian for Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand that don't have to suffer through Japanese and Thai occupation and the ensuing 30 years of war and revolution.
 
There would be lots of semi-sovereign or autonomous territories like Greenland, Puerto Rico, and Hong Kong all over the map. Various islands in the Indonesian archipelago like West Papua would either be independent or some sort of commonwealth within a United Kingdom of the Netherlands. It would be much harder to lay out where the borders of a European Union ends on the world map.

I think an interesting question here is the shape of the British Empire after Indian independence. Without America becoming the world's premier naval power, would the Gulf States (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE) still be part of a smaller, more tightly integrated British Commonwealth and host to some of the Royal Navy's most important bases East of Suez?
For All Time isn't really a decolonization focused timeline, but in that TL Chenua Achebe is the Governor General of Nigeria, which is still under British rule in the late 20th century.

I think the interesting question here is what countries what be better off in this timeline? This ATL would be almost utopian for Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand that don't have to suffer through Japanese and Thai occupation and the ensuing 30 years of war and revolution.
Could you show me a link to this TL? It sounds very interesting.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
There would be lots of semi-sovereign or autonomous territories like Greenland, Puerto Rico, and Hong Kong all over the map. Various islands in the Indonesian archipelago like West Papua would either be independent or some sort of commonwealth within a United Kingdom of the Netherlands. It would be much harder to lay out where the borders of a European Union ends on the world map.
This.

More so than than even the timing of decolonization, the total xtent of decolonization and depth of it is in question.

I think an interesting question here is the shape of the British Empire after Indian independence. Without America becoming the world's premier naval power, would the Gulf States (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE) still be part of a smaller, more tightly integrated British Commonwealth and host to some of the Royal Navy's most important bases East of Suez?
Also, this. There may be 'halfway houses' available allowing imperial/colonial protectorate relations with Britain to last longer in those colonies/protectorates with more monarchical and traditional governing elites who pragmatically see British protection as politically and economically useful as compared with those that had larger indigenous middle-class/intelligentsia independence movements with more extensive and escalating demands.

To me, the first big question is India. OTOH, India was clearly on their path to independence pre-WW2,
Agree on this. This is still going to happen before New Years Eve, December 31, 1949 at the latest, realistically.
and likely to take at least Malaya (including Singapore)
Disagree on this - British rule-protectorate here in OTL outlasted the Raj by ten years, and practical British Commonwealth protection, through the SAS during Konfrontasi lasted through 1966, almost 20 years after the end of the Raj. British influence in Malaya, Singapore, Borneo clearly wasn't a creature dependent on the Raj for support. (Nor was Hong Kong- British for another thirty years, whoah!) I think because the Malay states had traditional, conservative, pragmatic princely rulers instead of overeducated and ideological intelligentsia leaders, and because their tin and rubber and oil industries made them a net economic benefit.

and Burma
This would probably go with Burma or not long after, despite the British liking their exploitation of the local oil resources, because I think the Burmese were consistently pretty surly during and about colonial rule. Also maintaining control for the limited number of seaports into the interior was pretty expensive. If the Burmese can be worked up into a frenzy of fear about the Indians and or the Chinese they might cling to the British for protection, but I sort of doubt, and the British might not find cultivating the antagonism worth it, or desire to motivate India to see Burma as a British anti-Indian outpost.

Additionally, the British support for the Muslim League, driven in part by their support for the war effort, was directly linked to the creation of Pakistan. So India's decolonization would likely have looked very different, at least in form,
Yeah, so no partition without WWII.
and quite likely also somewhat in timing.
Not more than about two years I'd think.

The following other colonies, semi-colonies whose independence timescales would be minimally affected:
Egypt: Pledged for a more complete independence by 1946........in 1936
Iraq: formally independent in the interwar, occupied again because of the war
Iran: independent in the interwar, occupied because of the war
Philippines: Pledged for independence by 1945......in 1934 or 1935

Syria (and Lebanon) mandate: Pledged for independence in 1946....in 1936 ----- An issue with this one. I can very easily see the French break their promise try to amend structures and maintain some sort of union, "alliance" or "protectorate" relationship indefinitely post-1946 that would be, to Syrian eyes colonialism in disguise, but such a blatantly poor disguise, that it would provoke a Franco-Syrian war in the mid-1940s that would end up a protracted affair with the French winning militarily but gradually losing politically.

Palestine mandate: Resolved in late forties or early 50s -- It's resolution, demographics, and legal British immigration policy over the mandate from 1937 or so until the end will be highly dependent on how late the PoD is that averts WWII. The later the PoD (like after Mar or Apr 1939) the more restrictive laws will be on Jews immigration. If the PoD is so early as to prevent Nazis and Nuremburg laws, Jewish immigration push factor would also be less.

The second big question is communist party operations in Asia- meaning, China.
It will be active and kicking as long as it can, maybe taking over.

If nationalist China does not go communist,
Well without WWII China probably wont go Communist
It depends what "no WWII" means, when we apply it to Asia. Does it just mean no Japanese occupations and assaults on western colonies like Indochina and all the rest like it inaugurated the day it attacked Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, the DEI, and PI?

Or does it mean an early PoD where the Japanese don't go further than their Manchuria landgrab to invade China proper in 1937?

Or they don't even seize Manchuria and create the Manchukuo puppet-state in 1931?

If it is only the first situation, in the long run, the Chinese Communists still have better prospects than Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist ever do (with his prospects being hardly any better than those of various Japanese puppet rulers). If it is one of the latter two situations, where China is much less violated and devastated, the Chiang Kai-shek Nationalist government has much better survival prospects and should be in good shape to contain, marginalize, and possible squeeze out entirely the Chinese Communists are an armed and relevant political faction.

communist parties in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia,
Before even getting to the issue of possible external Chinese Communist support on their trajectory and prospects, whether the French colonial regime is disrupted, humiliated, and temporarily overthrown by Japanese occupiers will be far more determinative of if these parties get a real chance at power in these countries over the long term......or not.
most of Asia still stays in the hands of the French and British.
This again depends more on what the Japanese are doing than on whether the Chinese go Communist.

And we should not conflate French and British colonial behaviors and policies. I will not be judging or saying one is "better" than the other, but I think by the interwar era, in some of its colonies like India, most British political figures were recognizing the inevitability of self-government certainly and even independence, but the French Republic had reached no such broad consensus nor acceptance.

To illustrate my point, I would say that Vietnamese Communists would have better prospect at establishing a nationwide political network and reputation and basis for long term political success in a situation where they filled a power vacuum during and after a Japanese occupation of Indochina displaced French control, but China or southern remained Nationalist and not Communist, than in a scenario where foreign invasion and occupation never knocked the French administration and colonial occupation regime out of place from Indochina, but Chinese Communists emerged from the wreckage of a Sino-Japanese War that never expanded into a "Greater East Asia War", "Great Pacific War" or "WWII, Pacific Front", and the Chinese Communists started providing cross-border sanctuary and aid to Vietnamese and other Indochinese Communists. The cross-border material support and inspiration could be/would be helpful, but not likely decisive all by itself politically, or leading to eclipse other political currents and trends in Indochina.

This ATL would be almost utopian for Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand
Not having the famine associated with the end part of the Japanese occupation would be nice. So, would not having war. Not having Communist rule also, especially for certain classes of people and faith groups. But colonialism is violence by definition. Many would dispute the "utopian" adjective applied, or at least suspend judgement for many, many decades until the French finally quit, and we'll see what gets them to quit and how violent/corrupt that process might be. Also, the Vietnamese, Cambodians, Lao "won't know what they're missing", the bad and the ugly, as well as the good, so are unlikely to be "counting their blessings" to the extent they are getting any, in a comparative perspective.
 
Disagree on this - British rule-protectorate here in OTL outlasted the Raj by ten years, and practical British Commonwealth protection, through the SAS during Konfrontasi lasted through 1966, almost 20 years after the end of the Raj.
Depends what you mean by British rule- Malaya became a self-governing federation in 1948 (the first elections were in 1955). Of course, with an ongoing communist insurgency and the British High Commissioner as Head of Government, that self-governance was fairly theoretical for the first decade; but in a scenario with no Japanese occupation, you might have no communist uprising, and hence a more meaningful self-governance period.

Incidentally, Singapore remained separate and still a Crown Colony for the whole period.
Yeah, so no partition without WWII.
Mostly agreed- the Muslim League will be both weaker and have much less influence on British policy, so likely no partition. That said, the Muslim League will still exist and support the idea of an independent Pakistan, and the British will be tempted to try to draw up a compromise, like the various three-layer federation schemes they proposed OTL. How that all goes depends on a lot of factors.
Before even getting to the issue of possible external Chinese Communist support on their trajectory and prospects, whether the French colonial regime is disrupted, humiliated, and temporarily overthrown by Japanese occupiers will be far more determinative of if these parties get a real chance at power in these countries over the long term......or not.
Agreed- though whether they receive external support still matters, and for that matter revolution is not the only way for a political group to gain power in a confused situation such as decolonization tends to be, and foreign support doesn't have to be violence-related.
 

thaddeus

Donor
to add another complication, while WWII might possibly be avoided, (just IMO) there would certainly be regional wars, there could even be a bifurcated WWII with a European War and a Pacific War.
 
It is my understanding that the American OSS armed and trained various local groups to fight the Japanese. These groups kept their weapons and would then be the core of the anti-colonial forces.

I heard a saying from an old solider. Be careful who you arm today, since you may be fighting them tomorrow.

This varied widely. Ran across a account by a OSS officer involved in contacting the proto Viet Minh. The actual contact did not occur until the summer of 1945, discussions were long, and negligible weapons delivered before Japan surrendered. Conversely the US delivered as much as practical to the Philippines.
 
I will not be judging or saying one is "better" than the other, but I think by the interwar era, in some of its colonies like India, most British political figures were recognizing the inevitability of self-government certainly and even independence, but the French Republic had reached no such broad consensus nor acceptance.

Yes. The political instability of the fourth republic prevented any deep reform of the colonial system. Even if the elites (both technocratic and economic) knew that the old fashioned colonial pact was out of date.
 
would India become independent as a whole or as several smaller countries. What about the Ducal states?
 
UK may try to make India a Dominion like Canada/Australia to weasel out of giving full independence and attendant loss of status. Probably doesn't work in the long run, but they'd still try.
 
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