December 7 1947 a day of infamy

With Tokugawa Yoshinobu victory in the Boshin War japan stated a golden age. The 16th Tokugawa shogun. Tokugawa Iesato orders a massive ship building program. He opposed war with the united states. Tokugawa Iesato died on June 5, 1940. Tokugawa Iemasa became the 17th Tokugawa shogun lake his father he opposed war with the united states. Under his leadership japan wold complete the 5 Yamato Class Battleships and one of the Shogun Class Battleships( Design A-150 ) by the end of 1947.


At the same time a pro battleship and isolationist Congress canceled other aircraft carrier construction instead ordering more battleships. Constriction of the 6 Iowa class Battleships is accelerated with all commissioned between 1940 and 1944. Harry S. Truman was elected President in 1944. 6 Montana class Battleships are ordered but the final 3 are Canceled in may of 1945 do to navel intelligence diced that the Shogun Class Battleships are armed with 18 inch guns. To counter the Shogun Class Battleships 5 Battleships beast on the 1936 Tillman IV-2 study are ordered. At the same time all the Nevada class or prior Battleships are scraped. The new Class of Battleships are the mass 80,000 ton, 1,000 foot Oklahoma Class mounting fifteen 18” guns in five triple turrets.

bb73-02.jpg






By may of 1944 the war in Europe had became a stalemate with out US help for the Allies.
This would state that way until 1948.


May 10th 1947 Tokugawa Iemasa and his son are assassinated and the 7 year old Tokugawa Tsunenar becomes the 18th Tokugawa shogun. Hideki Tōjō is named the regent for Tokugawa Tsunenar. Relations between The U.S.A and Japan continue to fall a part.


On November 26, 1947, a Japanese task force of six aircraft carriers (Akagi, Kaga, Sōryū, Hiryū, Shōkaku, and Zuikaku) and the Battleships Yamato, Musashi, Shinano, and shogun, departed northern Japan en route to a position to northwest of Hawaii, intending to launch its aircraft to attack Pearl Harbor. In all, 408 aircraft were intended to be used: 360 for the two attack waves.


The Attack on December 7th 1947 on Pearl Harbor damages the fleet badly.
Damage report
Arizona – 2 bombs magazine Exploded; total loss.
Iowa-8 torpedo Capsized; total loss
Yorktown 5 bombs aircraft weapons magazine Exploded; total loss.
USS Wasp 8 torpedo Capsized; total loss
Maine 7 torpedo 2 bombs Damage from Exploded Arizona; settling to the harbor bottom on an even keel to be repaired
Montana 4 torpedo 18 degree list to port
Missouri six bombs, 2 torpedo, beached


3 hours before sun set Enterprise, Hornet, Lexington, Saratoga with where at sea ding the attack on Pearl Harbor find the japans forces. Chester William Nimitz orders an attack. Akagi, Kaga, Sōryū, are sunk in the attack. Nimitz with out order chose to chase the japans fleet. Nagumo splits his force seeding the battleships one way and his reaming carers other.


11:15 am December 8 1947 the us carriers lunch another attack on the japans carers sinking the Hiryū, Shōkaku, and badly damaging the Zuikaku. The US carriers lose contacted with the japans. Nimitz diced to tire to find them. 2:22 Am December 9th the Battleships Yamato, Musashi, Shinano, and shogun open fire on the US Carriers at a range of 2 miles. Nimitz had sealed his Carriers Strait in to the Japanese Battleships at night.
 
Yamato laid down 4 November 1937, launched 8 August 1940, and commissioned 16 December 1941
Musashi laid down 29 March 1938, launched 1 November 1940, and commissioned 5 August 1942.
Shinano Laid down: 4 May 1940 Launched 5 October 1943 Commissioned: 19 November 1943
Edo Laid down: 9 August 1940 Launched 10 November 1943 Commissioned 22 December 1943
Hiroshima Laid down 10 December 1943 Launched 8 may 1947 Commissioned 15 June 1947


Design A-150 battleship (shogun class)
shogun Laid down 26 December 1943 Launched 20 may 1947 Commissioned 4 July 1947
Tokugawa Laid down February 10 1944 project Launched 12 April 1948 project Commissioned 14 may 1948


Iowa-class
Iowa laid down 27 June 1940, launched 27 August 1942, and commissioned 22 February 1943
New Jersey laid down 16 September 1940, launched 7 December 1942, and commissioned 23 May 1943.
Missouri laid down 6 January 1941, launched 29 January 1944, and commissioned 11 June 1944.
Wisconsin laid down 25 January 1942, launched 7 December 1943, and commissioned 16 April 1944
Illinois laid down 15 January 1942 launched 20 December 1943, and commissioned 29 April 1944
Kentucky laid down 12 June 1942 launched 20 February 1944, and commissioned 4 July 1944


Montana class
Montana laid down 10 July 1943 launched 22 march 1945, and commissioned 15 July 1945
Ohio laid down 20 July 1943 launched 14 April 1945, and commissioned 25 July 1945
Maine laid down 21 September 1943 launched 26 June 1945, and commissioned 25 September 1945 New Hampshire laid down 26 September 1944 cancled 10 may 1945 Dismantled on builder's ways
Louisiana laid down 12 December 1944 cancled 10 may 1945 Dismantled on builder's ways
Wyoming laid down 22 December 1944 cancled 10 may 1945 Dismantled on builder's ways


1936 Tillman IV-2 study Oklahoma Class
Oklahoma laid down 22 May 1945 launched 10 August 1947, and commissioned 22 November 1947

Texas laid down 23 July 1945 launched 15 October 1947, and project commission January 5 1948
New york down 27 August 1945, project launched 27 July 1948, and commission 22 February 1949
Louisiana laid down 16 September 1946, project launched 7 December 1948, and commission 23 May 1949.
New Hampshire laid down 6 January 1947, project launched 29 January 1949, and commission 11 June 1950.
 

celt

Banned
The new Class of Battleships are the mass 80,000 ton, 1,000 foot Oklahoma Class mounting fifteen 18” guns in five triple turrets.
I really wish they built that ship,might be a waste of 80,000 tons of steel,but it looks fricking great.
Can't wait to read the rest of this thread.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
This is exactly the sort of T/L that really raises my hackles.

The POD is utterly senseless. It raised obscure political leaders to heights they would never have achieved without OTL events (Truman was made the Democratic VP candidate BECAUSE he was a political Zero. That he turned out to be an inspired leader was blind luck). It combines two political elements (Battleship advocates and isolationists) who were at opposite ends of the political spectrum into some monolithic force. It ignores the actions already ensconced into the U.S. budget, the fact that carriers were vastly less expensive that battleships, and that pretty much everyone had accepted that the carrier was the coming thing in naval warfare.

The T/L ignores that the Japanese were flat broke, had zip as far as foreign exchange and had to go get resources from the DEI and SEA before mid-1942 or their military machine would have flat run out of oil. It ignores that the IJA would have been utterly fought out by 1947 in a vainglorious attempt to conquer China.

It ignores the reality of naval construction. It allows a BRAND NEW CLASS of battleship to be constructed faster than ships half its size (and, BTW retains the delay in two of the New Jersey class ships that only happened because of circumstances unique to 1943/44 that would NOT have existed with the POD)

It moves everything six years forward and recreates the exact circumstance of 1941 even everything about that timing was defendant on unique circumstances of the era.

It ignores the reason that the Battle Line was left in Pearl on December 7th 1941 no longer exists.

It then introduces a second POD that indicates that, even though USN vessels had radar as early as 1940, and that the European War, even without the U.S. taking part, would have clearly shown the critical place that radar had in a modern battlefield, the USN has REMOVED the radar from every carrier and cruiser in the fleet. It then compounds the error by having battleships suddenly appear TWO MILES from the carriers indicating that rather than having escorting cruisers, destroyers and, yes, BATTLESHIPS, the carriers are wandering about the Pacific all alone.

In short it ignores everything that a reasonable T/L requires.
 

Bearcat

Banned
Well, CB, he is very new. He has a lot to learn about crafting one of these, but unfortunately, most people learn by stubbing their toe a few times. maybe his next effort, or two or three down the line, will get better.
 
The US carriers lose contacted with the japans. Nimitz diced to tire to find them. 2:22 Am December 9th the Battleships Yamato, Musashi, Shinano, and shogun open fire on the US Carriers at a range of 2 miles. [/SIZE]Nimitz had sealed his Carriers Strait in to the Japanese Battleships at night.

I cut out the rest of the waste to just consider how immensely unlikely that the Japanese battleships would be able to close to within two miles of any sort of US naval force.
 
In a world where Japan keep a Shogun post 1870's -- ?Would there be a 1940's European War?

Well, obviously the answer is "there might be"

I don't find the POD a problem, nor the idea that Shogunate Japan would be able to modernise to first world status, and build its own battleships - after all, they do have something like 80 years of alternate history to play with

Whilst butterflies are going to be eating up reality, you can't say its inevitable that things will turn out DIFFERENT. The Shogunate is just as likely to end up fighting a war with the Russians as the empire was, and in fact such a war might be what gives a final boost to westernisation, albeit in a more traditional form (eg maybe keeping the Samurai and daimyo, but with a national assembly over the top)

The use of personal names, eg Nimitz, Truman, whilst seeming to grate is at least an indicator of flavour. If the author had decided that for veracity he would make up some names, it would have meant nothing and he might just as well have done away with names altogether.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with battleship wank!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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