Decades of Darkness

[Jürgen]

I actually think that @Nevermore has the right of it here. The fact that sex between 'owners' and slaves is so common that the average slave is likely to appear mixed-race is likely to make the situation more acute. You have a society which, publically, extolls its strength as resulting from it's pure blood, yet there is a good possibility that a large percentage of that same population has heritage that is, less then 'pure' is going to instill a great cultural anxiety. Then add to that that the group that these quote, unquote 'superior' people rule over are harder and harder to differentiate just by looking at them. There is going to be a very real fear that some of the slaves could potentially pass and 'infiltrate' the nation.

I suspect that *American popular literature is full of taut thrillers about some major political or business figure really being a secret slave who is trying to undermine the country. Which is, of course, gag inducing from our point of view, but it sounds about right for DoD pulp fiction.

But it won’t translate well into daily politics as anything other than keeping baseborn people out of politics. Even in OTL under Segregation w interracial relationship was uncommon, Strom Thurmond fathered a child with a Black teenage maid and while it wasn’t public, it wasn’t a great secret either and no one used it against him. The only time we saw such accusations used against another politicians, were against McCain by Bush the Younger because he had adopted a Tamil child.

You have to remember that elite of TTL USA are depraved, amoral and hypocritical to a level, where anyone outside the system will find it completely incredible that no one react.

 

[DanMcCollum]

But it won’t translate well into daily politics as anything other than keeping baseborn people out of politics. Even in OTL under Segregation w interracial relationship was uncommon, Strom Thurmond fathered a child with a Black teenage maid and while it wasn’t public, it wasn’t a great secret either and no one used it against him. The only time we saw such accusations used against another politicians, were against McCain by Bush the Younger because he had adopted a Tamil child.

You have to remember that elite of TTL USA are depraved, amoral and hypocritical to a level, where anyone outside the system will find it completely incredible that no one react.

Well, the comment wasn't about whether or not an accusation of taking advantage of your slaves would lead to one's political defeat. I would agree with you, that that type of accusation would have no noticable impact whatsoever. However, being accused of having Black ancestry, on the other hand, almost certainly would.

 

[Jürgen]

Well, the comment wasn't about whether or not an accusation of taking advantage of your slaves would lead to one's political defeat. I would agree with you, that that type of accusation would have no noticable impact whatsoever. However, being accused of having Black ancestry, on the other hand, almost certainly would.

Yes but it would mainly be a tool against populist politicians from a common background.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Yes but it would mainly be a tool against populist politicians from a common background.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. There may be the occasional rumor campaign aimed at one of the elites - but they will be much less likely to gain any traction. After all. it would be in the interests of said elites not to let THAT catch on (because the chances are good, its true of a major percentage of them. And best not to look too close), so if such a campaign does catch on against one of them, expect it to be a HUGE scandal.

 

[Nevermore]

But it won’t translate well into daily politics as anything other than keeping baseborn people out of politics. Even in OTL under Segregation w interracial relationship was uncommon, Strom Thurmond fathered a child with a Black teenage maid and while it wasn’t public, it wasn’t a great secret either and no one used it against him. The only time we saw such accusations used against another politicians, were against McCain by Bush the Younger because he had adopted a Tamil child.

You have to remember that elite of TTL USA are depraved, amoral and hypocritical to a level, where anyone outside the system will find it completely incredible that no one react.

Feels like you and I might be talking past each other as I don't think it'd be terribly frequent - just something someone egregious even by ITTL American standards could resort to if they see it as benefiting them in some way. Nor do I think your observations are mutually exclusive with mine; indeed, I think derailing the possible political career of an upstart who wants to make big social changes in some fashion is an excellent usage of such a tactic (especially if they hail from one of the central American, Caribbean, or south American states where the legacy of the old casta system could quite possibly mean that they do have black ancestry somewhere in their past and I feel it'd be even more likely if the acquisition was in the recent past, before Columbia's social mores calcify). It is always a dangerous game, like you've pointed out, but it's something that could conceivably be in someone's arsenal of smears in a time before DNA testing.

After it's possible to at least get some idea of where your ancestors came from? Something tells me that Americans ITTL will make that sort of thing mandatory for to stand for office, let alone be counted as a citizen, once it's easily available and then I think you're onto something with having it be DOA being run as an attack ad.

The US defining itself as “we’re not white supremacist, we’re White-Arab-Oriental-Hindu[1] supremacist” is interesting
[1] Hindu being the common term for Indian

I could see something like that, yeah, once anthropology becomes more in line with the understanding of it in our world. American society is not going to react well to learning the "out of Africa" hypothesis, I'm sure; probably latch onto boasting about Neanderthal DNA giving them evolutionary superiority or, if they really want to be out there, argue that Africans altogether are some kind of subspecies. Broadening the net of "white" to "white and the MENA region," then "MENA and Indo-European," along with tacitly accepting Asians, seems right in line with getting the local elites on board as they've done time and again in the places they've gorged themselves on.

American racialism, as we've seen here, is nothing if not adaptable.

 

[Scrivener]

Seeing that discussion is still going on in this thread, what ever happened to American enslavement of whites? Did that plot thread ever go anywhere, or was it eventually resolved with white enslavement being deemed “inhumane” or, in the worst-case scenario, acceptable, given that the “American race” is now superior to everyone else.

 

[PobreCesar]

Did that plot thread ever go anywhere

I would assume it would remain under contention through the point at which the TL ends. I don't expect it to be resolved quickly though if the *USA doesn't fare well going forwards then I imagine it might get swept up in larger turmoil as the perfidiously evil empire par excellence breaks apart.

 

[PariahNihil]

Just wanted to let @Jared know that this was the first story that I had ever encountered, early in my life when I was learning English and developing my love for the concept of alternate history, and that I will always be grateful for its grandiloquence and general awesomeness and owe my entire love of this genre to this timeline

If I must wait another 13 years to own a copy of an actual DoD novel this girl will remain steadfast til the day *salutes*

 

[Jared]

Just wanted to let @Jared know that this was the first story that I had ever encountered, early in my life when I was learning English and developing my love for the concept of alternate history, and that I will always be grateful for its grandiloquence and general awesomeness and owe my entire love of this genre to this timeline

If I must wait another 13 years to own a copy of an actual DoD novel this girl will remain steadfast til the day *salutes*

Glad you liked it - both times!

For an actual DoD novel... after several attempts, I've reached the conclusion that I need to do something with the mainstream DoD before working on subsequent novels. I'm considering what to do with that, but most likely a polish of the timeline, various changes to reflect some developments and things I've learned since then, and so on. After that, I'd have to work out how to publish it, whether self-publication or via a publisher. Nothing's decided yet, and even if it was there would be a lot of work before it was finalised, but possibly something will happen eventually.

 

[Michael Canaris]

Glad you liked it - both times!

For an actual DoD novel... after several attempts, I've reached the conclusion that I need to do something with the mainstream DoD before working on subsequent novels. I'm considering what to do with that, but most likely a polish of the timeline, various changes to reflect some developments and things I've learned since then, and so on. After that, I'd have to work out how to publish it, whether self-publication or via a publisher. Nothing's decided yet, and even if it was there would be a lot of work before it was finalised, but possibly something will happen eventually.

One thing I’d like to see is updated population tables for the Americas, which seemed to peter-out around *1880.

 

[Jared]

One thing I’d like to see is updated population tables for the Americas, which seemed to peter-out around *1880.

The retcon is likely to go the other way and only provide national (not state) population figures, due to difficulty in extrapolating state population once that diverges so much from OTL. (That was the reason they stopped in the first place).

 

[robertsconley]

For an actual DoD novel... after several attempts, I've reached the conclusion that I need to do something with the mainstream DoD before working on subsequent novels. I'm considering what to do with that, but most likely a polish of the timeline, various changes to reflect some developments and things I've learned since then, and so on. After that, I'd have to work out how to publish it, whether self-publication or via a publisher. Nothing's decided yet, and even if it was there would be a lot of work before it was finalised, but possibly something will happen eventually.

Looking forward to it. I will be one of the first in line to get it.

 

[Nevermore]

One thing I’d like to see is updated population tables for the Americas, which seemed to peter-out around *1880.

I'd personally like to see Supreme Court cases in New England and the U.S. Always wondered how the two of them diverged legally, outside of obvious things that each society took for granted.

A bit more of Mullins' life story would be interesting too.