Dec. 8-10, 1941, USA DOWS Germany

For years I assumed the USA DOWed Germany by Dec.10 and that was how we got into the European war. I assumed everybody considered Japan and Germany really depended on each other, and worked hand and glove.

I was amazed at the truth which I consider one of the least plausible things, at least in part, in history whose documentation of actually happening is iron clad.

We left the cell door unlocked and the scaffold empty. The condemned marched out, climbed up the scaffold steps, and hanged himself.

It made me wonder WTF was going on?

What if FDR tried to DOW Germany between Dec.8-10, 1941?
 
For years I assumed the USA DOWed Germany by Dec.10 and that was how we got into the European war. I assumed everybody considered Japan and Germany really depended on each other, and worked hand and glove.

I was amazed at the truth which I consider one of the least plausible things, at least in part, in history whose documentation of actually happening is iron clad.

We left the cell door unlocked and the scaffold empty. The condemned marched out, climbed up the scaffold steps, and hanged himself.

It made me wonder WTF was going on?

What if FDR tried to DOW Germany between Dec.8-10, 1941?

The 'undeclared war' of U-boats sinking US shipping to the UK would have given him a casus belli whenever he liked. Remember the US was now engaged in a war on the same side as Britain, as Japan DOW'd the UK on the same day. That, combined with the aforementioned undeclared war, would have given FDR enough political capital to do it.
 

Hoist40

Banned
The 'undeclared war' of U-boats sinking US shipping to the UK would have given him a casus belli whenever he liked. Remember the US was now engaged in a war on the same side as Britain, as Japan DOW'd the UK on the same day. That, combined with the aforementioned undeclared war, would have given FDR enough political capital to do it.
Was there US shipping going to the UK?

From what I understand the convoys were British and their allies with US escorts. US merchant ships were not used.

Below is the link to convoy HX 156, the convoy where the US destroyer Reuben James was sunk. None of the merchant ships were American

http://www.warsailors.com/convoys/hx156.html

This is part of the reason why Roosevelt had a hard time using the sinking of the Reuben James to get the US into the war. US warships were engaged in warlike acts to defend merchants ships of countries already at war so even the US public thought that they were fair targets.
 
Was there US shipping going to the UK?

From what I understand the convoys were British and their allies with US escorts. US merchant ships were not used.

Below is the link to convoy HX 156, the convoy where the US destroyer Reuben James was sunk. None of the merchant ships were American

http://www.warsailors.com/convoys/hx156.html

This is part of the reason why Roosevelt had a hard time using the sinking of the Reuben James to get the US into the war. US warships were engaged in warlike acts to defend merchants ships of countries already at war so even the US public thought that they were fair targets.

OK, but WI Roosevelt capitalizes on the American feeling after PH to say that we need to finish off Hitler too, do the Congress and people buy it enough to make it happen?

In previous threads I have pretty much said "No" but someone provided Gallup Poll results that indicate the people preferred going to war with Germany rather than seeing Germany win and felt that German-American war was practically inevitable. So, what if FDR thinks Dec. 8-10 is the time and acts accordingly?
 
I don't mean this mean but did it really matter? I mean didn't Hitler DOW on the US shortly after we DOW Japan?

I'm afraid, Emperor Constantine, that your post is a waste of time. I know about the Hitler DOW. If I didn't know that the thread would be pointless. The idea is WI-ing if Hitler's DOW, or something like it, was neccessary to get us in the German war anytime soon. I suspect I didn't need to spell it out for most people here.
 

mowque

Banned
FDR would have liked to join the European War since at least the Fall of France. However, isolationist feelings of Americans stopped his attempts. FDR's approach to this was just to wage as an aggressive policy int he North Atlantic as possible, up to and including 'shoot on sight' for German U-Boats, and occupying Iceland.

He probably could have got a Declaration of War after Pearl Harbor. Hitler knew it was coming and felt time pressure. Every day he waited things in the North Atlantic just got worse for the Nazis.
 
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