Death to Ahura Mazda!

Imagine that Heraclius decides not to resume war with the Persians after his defeat.

In OTL he resumes the war in 622 and defeats the Persians and recaptures Jerusalem. Unfortunately this was just before the Muslim Arabs were able to emerge and defeat the two weakened empires.

ATL: Instead after 616 he pays some tribute to the Persians and stays in Constaninople and iscntent to live out his days consolidating the western portion of his Empire. Maybe even governing from Carthage (that seemed to be his intention if Constaniople fell).

This leaves the Persians much stronger and probably able to contain the Arabs.

This would probably leave the 'Holy Land' under Persian Zoroastrian rule for centuries.

What are the chances of a western crusade against the Zoroastrians in later centuries? Would the more militant Zorastrianism of the later Sassanids take root in the Middle East? Would we today be talking about Zoroastrian fundamentalists instead of Muslims?

Could a new Christian/Zoroastrian civilization emerge that would ultimately achieve more than the Arab civilization did?
 
"LEAVE AHURA MAZDA ALONE! OMG!! PLEASE!" *Cry*

I doubt any of the Byzantines would leave the area alone long enough for a crusade. Though of course a Zoroastrian Persia leaves things open for Zoroastrian Turks coming in and kicking everyone around! With Fire!
 
I'm interested, I want to hear more.

Does Zoroastrianism encourage or even allow conversion, the way Christianity and Islam do? Or could it turn into such a religion?

Would an Islam blocked from the northern Middle East turn south and spread more quickly into Africa?
 

Philip

Donor
Does Zoroastrianism encourage or even allow conversion, the way Christianity and Islam do? Or could it turn into such a religion?
Before the Islamic conquests it did. The Sassanids actively and sometimes forcibly promoted Zoroastrianism as the state religion.
 
Before the Islamic conquests it did. The Sassanids actively and sometimes forcibly promoted Zoroastrianism as the state religion.

Yes quite. They crucified Mani the founder of Manichaeism. So my pod asks if a victorious Persia in 616 could have evolved into an empire not wholly unlike the Caliphate (perhaps more intolerant at first).

It would have the resources of Persia, most of Asia Minor and the Middle East and Egypt. Would they have gone further than the Arabs in terms of science and creativity or were they already reaching a cultural dead end?
 
With a Secure Zoroastrian Empire you get an Islam confined to the western side of Arabia that slowly sinks into a kind of proto Jewish cult except you have the Arabs as a special people instead of Jews. As time goes by it becomes a quaint Arab custom that maybe survives into the ninth century.

I think that with time the Persians would take Constaninople and move into the Balkans as the Turks would later do. I think the Byzantines would move to Carthage and you would then have a North African/Spanish empire that speaks Greek and practices Orthodox Christianity.

Perhaps today we would be speaking of a Greco-America instead of a Latin one.
 
With a Secure Zoroastrian Empire you get an Islam confined to the western side of Arabia that slowly sinks into a kind of proto Jewish cult except you have the Arabs as a special people instead of Jews. As time goes by it becomes a quaint Arab custom that maybe survives into the ninth century.

it's a possibility although what would probably be the key thing would be the treatment of the Coptic & Syric Christians by the Persians. I think they were initially welcomed as less hostile than the Orthodox Greeks. However once Byzantium effectively gave up on contesting the area would this change? If not what you suggest could well occur. If the Persians seek to encourage conversion or start looking at the Christians as unreliable you could let see an Arab/Muslim conquest of the region although it would be more difficult. [Possibly Byzantium might also try re-emerging into Anatolia if in any condition to do so].

I think that with time the Persians would take Constaninople and move into the Balkans as the Turks would later do. I think the Byzantines would move to Carthage and you would then have a North African/Spanish empire that speaks Greek and practices Orthodox Christianity.

Less confident of this as Constantinople is one tough nut and the Persians are a hell of a long way from their base and will have other things on their mind. [Not just possibly Arab attacks but also their ever restless eastern frontier].

Furthermore, even if the Alans and Slavs make the Balkans unprofitable [although I suspect it would be more likely Heraclius uses the peace with Persia to concentrate on driving them back], the cities political and economic importance is such that it would be very much in the empire's interest to hold it. Controlling the traffic through the straits and the one route to the Silk Road still outside Persian control would be very important.

I think if the empire had to retreat to N Africa and probably Iberia and Italy then it would have to become basically Catholic and probably Latin speaking.

Perhaps today we would be speaking of a Greco-America instead of a Latin one.

Possibly.;)

Steve
 
What about to the East? Would there be a Zoroastrian invasion of India? Southeast Asia? I guess what I'm really asking is, how much further would the religion spread beyond where the Empire could reach?
 
What about to the East? Would there be a Zoroastrian invasion of India? Southeast Asia? I guess what I'm really asking is, how much further would the religion spread beyond where the Empire could reach?

Swan Station

I suspect not. The Sassanids are nearly at the same size as Cyrus's empire and I suspect they will struggle to hold what they have already. The fact religions are more autocratic and make greater demands on their followers make the holding of such a large disparate empire a lot more difficult. It's noticeable that other than relatively briefly under the early Caliphate Persia and the fertile crescent were never again united in a single empire.

The place the religion might spread would possibly be central Asia where historically Persia had influence and also, other than Buddhism coming up from India there weren't really strong centralised challengers. Even so I suspect it would be more likely to spread via merchants and scholars than formally under the support of the imperial government.

Steve
 
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