Death of the Union

You need to include names of people, especially who leads the rebellions that lead to the dissolution of the United States. Also, how did the Presidential elections of 1920, 1924, 1928, 1932 and 1936 go?

I will for the first. The second... not sure. Would Woodrow Wilson have still won in this timeline for 1921?

Keep in mind the United States will eventually split into about three parts. In some ways, I'm actually trying to make parts of the Kaissreich scenario realistic.
 

loughery111

Banned
How are they going to get the public to join though? If Germany walks carefully, the US won't have an excuse, and won't be able to get an isolationist public to go to war.

The US had an excuse as early as 1915; borderline undeclared warfare was the straw that broke the camel's back, but honestly given how hard the media establishment was pushing, by 1917 the US will be able to declare war with or without further provocation, if it so desires.

That said, if you scrap the idea of the loans being what does the economy in, you can still make this work; just have the cause of the depression be loss of trade. It's still borderline-ASB, IMO, because Europe collapsing into chaos will dump most of the rest of the world's markets right into America's lap, but it avoids this whole problem.
 
The US had an excuse as early as 1915; borderline undeclared warfare was the straw that broke the camel's back, but honestly given how hard the media establishment was pushing, by 1917 the US will be able to declare war with or without further provocation, if it so desires.

That said, if you scrap the idea of the loans being what does the economy in, you can still make this work; just have the cause of the depression be loss of trade. It's still borderline-ASB, IMO, because Europe collapsing into chaos will dump most of the rest of the world's markets right into America's lap, but it avoids this whole problem.

Ah, except this is a worldwide depression, I'm just showing how it afflicts the US, although other countries get out much faster. Now, the POD is actually that Germany has smarter diplomacy this time around in regards to the US, so doesn't do unrestricted warfare, so doesn't give the US media anything to work with.

However, keep in mind the reason the Great Depression lasts so long isn't because of what sets it off, but rather that every time the US is about to recover, something else happens to make it go on longer. There's a reason, for example, that Russia being Fascist in this timeline will hurt the US, a lot.

Now, the reason the Entente don't just flat out lose is because the Ottomon Empire and the Austrian Hungarian Empire both collapse from internal dissent, allowing for the eventual stalemate to occur.
 
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loughery111

Banned
Ah, except this is a worldwide depression, I'm just showing how it afflicts the US, although other countries get out much faster. Now, the POD is actually that Germany has smarter diplomacy this time around in regards to the US, so doesn't do unrestricted warfare, so doesn't give the US media anything to work with.

However, keep in mind the reason the Great Depression lasts so long isn't because of what sets it off, but rather that every time the US is about to recover, something else happens to make it go on longer. There's a reason, for example, that Russia being Fascist in this timeline will hurt the US, a lot.

Now, the reason the Entente don't just flat out lose is because the Ottomon Empire and the Austrian Hungarian Empire both collapse from internal dissent, allowing for the eventual stalemate to occur.

This isn't improving my opinion in regards to the "borderline-ASB" part.

The fact is that events that we would term ASB do happen on a regular basis. However, they happen in such a way that their effects are random. Never in history has a serious of extremely low-probability events occurred in rapid succession, all reinforcing the same trend. Any depression that requires an endless series of low-order probability events to keep it going long enough for the US to finally implode is simply not going to seem plausible at all. You're going to encounter what I term the "Eurofed Problem," because his TL's all seem to involve the butterflies and ASB's all going one way, which isn't how it works at all. You've got to find a convincing reason to have the depression drag on and on, and to be frank the Russians having a revolution will barely even touch the US economy in this day and age, while every major nation in Europe having their own revolutions is just not at all plausible.

I wish you the best of luck, but... this doesn't seem compelling to me. No offense.
 
Except in this timeline, they aren't unlikely. Russia having a revolution in of itself isn't what causes issues, it's what that state is going to do that the US can do nothing about that will cause issues. The events logically follow each other, with a US helpless to affect them, as it's still stuck in massive isolationism. These international events cause loss of trade, and aid the economic collapse.

Additionally, the Dust Bowl still happens in this timeline, and helps further extend it.
 
Except in this timeline, they aren't unlikely. Russia having a revolution in of itself isn't what causes issues, it's what that state is going to do that the US can do nothing about that will cause issues. The events logically follow each other, with a US helpless to affect them, as it's still stuck in massive isolationism. These international events cause loss of trade, and aid the economic collapse.
Thing is your points would make their be less trade to lose over time, and the USA still has the Latin American markets and probably the Chinese one and the European minors (Scandinavia at the very least, maybe Iberia and the Benelux)

At this time the USA imports nothing critical to its survival, it will get hurt worse than OTL but not as badly as you may think
 
Thing is your points would make their be less trade to lose over time, and the USA still has the Latin American markets and probably the Chinese one and the European minors (Scandinavia at the very least, maybe Iberia and the Benelux)

At this time the USA imports nothing critical to its survival, it will get hurt worse than OTL but not as badly as you may think

Yes, but they cause economic shocks. Also, stuff actually happens in both South America and in Asia that cause problems. Namely, much of Asia gets conquered, while Europe falls into various spheres of influence.
 
Yes, but they cause economic shocks. Also, stuff actually happens in both South America and in Asia that cause problems. Namely, much of Asia gets conquered, while Europe falls into various spheres of influence.
Still some countries should still trade, I would say at least Sweden and Norway at a minimum

Also the USA here has over half the worlds oil production, people will be worse off not trading with it

Messing around in South America would get the USA to hurt you at the time if nothing else will, they will still be a market there
 
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