Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Schnozzberry, Jan 26, 2017.
I say the Sioux!
That was a terrible pun.
Com a Chmee bro...i'm sorry, I'll stop.
Wow, I can't believe I've missed this. This TL comes off as insane, and I mean that in the best possible way. Every piece of it reads like it was a real historical event, and it only sounds insane when I try to explain it to myself after reading it. In short, much like of the events of actual history! Love it! It's been an absolute delight reading up to today's post, and I'll have to follow closely!
Heyo, sorry about that. That wasn't finished, so please ignore. It should be finished real soon though. Anywho, I'll respond to comments real quick instead.
Thanks! Always nice to hear people are enjoying it!
Since the Sioux and Comanche are mostly or completely west of the Mississippi, they'll fall to the Kingdom of Louisiana which isn't going to have the same Laeti system but it will have something somewhat similar. Won't give it away though, Louisiana's story is yet to come.
Thank you! That feel of historical insanity is what I've been trying to go for, so I'm glad I'm hitting it.
Also, minor spoiler, here's a flag of one of the future Laeti that will be referenced soon. Sorry for the low resolution, the OTL symbol this is based I haven't found a good resolution of.
Hello everyone! Here is the .5 of an update that hopefully helps explain the Laeti some, and that I accidentally sent an unfinished version of earlier. While I've based it on the previous document in this style, I've added in a few of what the Imperial Department of Propaganda consider "corrections." One thing I've wanted to try and do is give a bit of perspective on how the future generations perceive events, and while this is slightly heavy-handed, I kind of like the idea, so if you all enjoy it as well, I might write updates like this on the odd occasion.
FOR REVIEW AND REVISION DUE TO ANTI TEUTONIC AND ANTI AMERICAN MESSAGE
IMPERIAL DEPARTMENT OF PROPAGANDA
OCTOBER 2 2035
Document to Review:
"The Forgotten Solution to the Indian Problem"
Written By James Corwin.
Published on ETTS:usa.hud.albanygazette.iis/119282, June 9 2033
NOTE: Alex, the higher-ups are beginning to grow suspicious over your refusal
to produce suggested revisions of your brother’s articles. I know it must be
hard to do, as misguided as he was, Jim was your brother. But they're giving
you his articles to test you and ensure you aren’t misguided like he was.
I know you are loyal to the Party and your Teutonic Brothers and Sisters,
but they still need proof.
If you get mistaken for a traitor, you know you, your wife and your daughter
are going out west. Your little girl, Rachel is what, fourteen? You know what
will happen to her in Frankfort, so stop sending these damn articles back as
unsalvageable and rewrite them. Glory to the Emperor! Glory to Duke!
When Jackson Duke praised Theodore Roosevelt's illegal deportation of all native Americans to Sequoyah as "the only effective solution to the Indian Problem," he seems to have forgotten that the United States already had an effective solution: the Laeti. (1) From 1799, with the establishment of the March of the Muscogee until their dissolution in 1910, the Laeti were a series of autonomous territories which granted a degree of self-rule to some of the native tribes and managed to maintain the peace between the white settlers and native peoples (2) who accepted the system for over a century.
The Laeti had their origins in the tumultuous 1790s as an attempt to prevent Great Britain and Spain from pulling apart the unstable western frontier by granting native tribes autonomy within the United States (3) in exchange for them remaining loyal to the United States. It was based on the Roman Laeti, which were barbarian tribes the Roman Empire would settle within Roman Territories to defend them from other barbarians. (4) Hoboi-Hili-Miko (5), the self-proclaimed Emperor of the Muscogee tribes, was the original proponent of the Laeti system as an attempt to prevent the United States from encroaching on the Muscogee tribe's land, however the idea truly caught on with the American government after receiving support by both Directors Adams. Director John Adams and his Federalist Party found the idea as being an opportunity for the United States to save money on the defense of the west (6) while Director Samuel Adams and the Republicans saw the Laeti system as allowing for a shrinking of the military which they believed would prevent an expansion of federal power. (7)
The now repealed 3rd amendment to the United States constitution was passed in 1798, despite having seen some resistance from several states,* making the formation of the Laeti constitutional albeit with several conditions. These conditions included a requirement that any state or organized territory which might have claim to the lands to approve of the decision, a condition that hindered the establishment of a number of Laeti.
The first two Laeti to be established were the Muscogee and Lenape Marches, established in 1799 and 1800 respectively. The Muscogee March would descend into civil war in 1801 as William Augustus Bowles, (8) a Muscogee nationalist, would claim leadership over the Muscogee people in direct opposition to now Marquis Hoboi-Hili-Miko, and while the civil war would be resolved relatively quickly, it soured prospects of forming additional Laeti for nearly a decade.
The next Laeti to be established was not another native Laeti, but the territory for former black slaves in the Southwest. Acceding to the Union in 1808, the newly established African Autonomy was on the frontlines of the subsequent Choctaw War that led to the Choctaw people being expelled from the old Southwest, thus making the Choctaw the only one of the Five Civilized Tribes to not have a Laeti. The remaining members of the Five Civilized Tribes would join the Union as Laeti in 1814, with the final Laeti to be established being that of the Oneida in 1819. (9)
The Laeti system was met with remarkable acclaim during this time as tribes which became Laeti began to adopt United Statesian style civilization through a mixture of cultural mingling and at times Federal encouragement. United Statesers would up this as a sign that they held a superior society, with some arguing that it was now the countries duty to spread their civilization across the Americas, contributing to the development of the idea of Manifest Destiny. (10)
With the exception of Dictator Andrew Jackson’s unconstitutional (11) attempt to forcefully (12) deport natives out of their Laeti during the Spanish-United Stateser War (13), the Laeti would continue on as native autonomies through the 19th century, weathering the Second Civil War, the Walker, Polk and Constitutional Dictatorships with relatively little change. Through this time, much of the natives’ old tribal society synthesized with United Statesian culture slowly replacing it. By 1910, the only major difference between the Laeti and the rest of the United States was the presence of native languages which continued to be spoken and written by the majority of the populations in all of the native Laeti, although in all Laeti more than 75% also spoke English. (14)
Theodore Roosevelt’s government embracement of race-based National Corporatism would lead to the lands held by the Laeti being valued as potential territory to settle with “superior” Assyrio-Teutons. This desire for the Laeti’s territories would lead to the complete deportation of native peoples from the Lenape, Muscogee, Chickasaw and Cherokee Laeti to Sequoyah in 1910, with only the Oneida Laeti remaining populated by native peoples, although it was stripped of its autonomous status and designated a Territory instead. While Roosevelt and Duke would claim the reason for this deportation was that the native peoples were “resisting” the rule of the American government, the fact of the matter is that native peoples were prosecuted because of the extreme racism of the Roosevelt Regime, just as the United States’ black, oriental and slavic populations did. (15) Duke’s approval of the deportations is just another piece of the vast pile of evidence that Duke and his Action Party are nothing more than a horde of racist, neo-Nikist thugs. With Election Day around the corner, I hope people keep in mind what Duke is praising because it shows exactly what he intends to do should the Action Party win. (16)
*At this time all new amendments to the Constitution required approval by the states, which remained the only way the Constitution could be amended until the 17th amendment was passed.
1: Remove the first sentence and merge the second sentence with
the second paragraph.
2: The highlighted section is to be changed. The official and
correct version of history tells that peace was not well
maintained by the Indians, but no action could be take due
to the degenerate society in Washington in this era.
3: References to America as the United States to be corrected.
4: An alternative example of a similar action in an Assyrio-Teutonic
or Celtic Society is to be added in as the acceptance of the
Teutonic Rome Theory is still an official debate within the Party.
In the event the Theory is rejected, the reference to Roman Laeti
is to be removed and the term Laeti is to be listed of
5: Replace the Muscogee version of his name with his English name,
Alexander McGillivray. Reference and Emphasis is to be put on
his Scottish heritage.
6: This is to have been acknowledged as a moment of shortsightedness
on Director John Adams' part as he is officially Revered.
7: This reference to Samuel Adams and the Republicans could removed.
Alternatively, this could be used to reinforce Doctrine on
Samuel Adams and the Republicans Treasonous nature.
8: His Muscogee name, Estajoca, is to be used instead as he is
an official Traitor.
9: Whole paragraph to be merged with the previous with references
to the African Autonomy and Five Civilized Tribes to be removed,
as according to official Party doctrine.
10: Paragraph to be expanded to further emphasis American Superiority.
11: Remove highlighted word.
12: Remove highlighted word.
13: The official and correct version of history mentions how the Indians
were allying with Spain. A reference to this is to be added.
14: This supposed cultural synthesis violates Party Doctrine. References
are to be made instead to the Official historical conflicts between
Laeti Indians and Americans.
15: Removal of inferior races for replacement by Assyrio-Teutons is to be
celebrated. Neither Theodore Roosevelt or Leader Duke would deny that,
so references to their supposed denial is to be removed.
16: Ignoble talk of Leader Duke to be removed and replaced with a
fitting conclusion that praises the Leader.
Proposed revisions submitted for approval by:
Alexander L. Corwin, Inspector-in-Training.
What did I just read?!?! Theodore Roosevelt is a fascist dictator who caused the enmasse deportations of native tribes?! And neo-fascists are running the USA?!?!
....Well thats a thing
It's probably some of the darkest parts of this timeline, and I've put it in relatively straightforward terms this time. Most of it has been pretty well implied already by this point, but some of what's hopefully showing through is how these things are written about.
I know it's a lot more overt than previous implications, I hope I didn't show break the pace too much.
This feels very 1984ish.
Is good but damn it I was somewhat hopeful for a optimistic american monarchy.
That probably won't be happening as much during the 20th and early 21st centuries, but one important thing is that history never ends, so things can change and even improve. There is a final event that this timeline will end with, and it will fully end on an bitter but optimistic time.
Hello everyone! Sorry for taking so long, finals came and I had a little bit less time to write. And, this update was intended to cover both the continuing Ohio War, and a concurrent war that's about to break out in the Union. But, that second bit's taking a bit longer to write, so instead, here's the continuation of the Ohio War.
"I hold that no man has a right to withhold his services when his country needs them."
--Arthur St. Clair
Following James Wilkinson’s ousting for treason, Governor of the Northwest, Arthur St. Clair assumed control of American forces in the Northwest, in turn taking direct control of Legion II. St. Clair’s first target was the republican stronghold on the Wabash River, Fort Liberty, with the Legion II departing for the fort in late August, and arriving on September 12th.
St. Clair expected Fort Liberty to be garrisoned with at most two hundred republicans as it was little more than a small stockade. Instead, nearly twelve hundred New Legionnaires and other republicans were present at the fort. The Lenape and Legion I’s victory at Coshocton had led to the New Legion and most other republicans retreating to Fort Liberty for an organized withdrawal north; most republicans feared that individual Patriot Corps would be picked off one by one if they retreated individually, so they had begun assembling at Fort Liberty in preparation.
As the sun had just began to set, the Legion II reached Fort Liberty, dropping practically on top of the encamped republican forces. When the Legion II was spotted by the republicans, the republicans outside of the fort began to retreat inside. However, the number of republicans and the relatively small size of the fort led to the republicans crowding, becoming a tightly packed mob as they pushed through the fort’s entrance, slowing down the retreat inside enough that forces from the Legion were able to begin attacking the retreating republicans. Republicans mounted a chaotic defense, even as more continued to retreat into the fort. A few minutes into the battle however, the shouts of the republicans outside began to be met with those of republicans inside the fort, and the tide of republicans retreating inside collided with a crowd attempting to get out of the fort.
Republicans climbed on top of the fort’s walls, attempting to shout commands to the republicans outside, only for them to be shot by Legion forces. After a few attempts however, a white flag arose above the stockades, ending the battle. As republicans continued to pour out of the fort, smoke began to rise from the fort as well. At some point during the republican’s hasty retreat into the fort, a dropped lamp or accidental spark caught the dry grass and scattered hay of the parade ground ablaze. Thanks to a breeze, the small flame shot across the parade ground, catching republicans with cotton or silk articles of clothing on fire which is what had sparked the panic. More troublingly was the fact that one of the storehouses had also caught on fire which threatened to ignite the republicans’ stores of gunpowder. After the fort was evacuated, both republicans and Legionnaires worked to put out the blaze however less than ten minutes after the evacuation finished, the gunpowder would catch fire and detonate.
Nearly one hundred republicans, and thirty Legionnaires lay dead by the end of the day, with three hundred republicans scattering and the rest being taken prisoner. While it was a tremendous victory for the Legion, rumours would spread through the Northwest that St. Clair had attempted to force the republicans into the burning fort so that the gunpowder’s detonation would kill the republicans and spare the effort of taking them prisoner. While the rumour failed to catch on with all but the most radical of republicans back east, it just so happened that those same radical republicans were those who made up the Patriot Corps moving west. This led to many republicans assuming St. Clair was going to take a merciless stance towards the republicans, which in turn led to the natives of the Protectorate assuming St. Clair would intend to take the same stance against them; after all, if the Legion wouldn’t have any mercy towards their own countrymen, why expect they would have any against them?
Despite the rumours of brutality, St. Clair would actually treat the captured prisoners with considerable kindness for the time. The act likely wasn’t out of the kindness of St. Clair’s heart, but a political maneuver to prevent republicans back east from gaining political ground, although it likely wasn’t necessary as the Title War had begun. St. Clair’s treatment of the prisoners would prevent further operations by Legion II and prevented St. Clair from launching a final offensive before the winter. General Simcoe and Little Turtle would undertake the offensive instead, attacking south and east towards the Lenape.
Both the Lenape and Legion I met Simcoe and Little Turtle outside of the ruins of Gnadenhutten. While not a deliberate choice of location by either side, it was a highly symbolic location for the battle. In 1782, Gnadenhutten had been the site of a massacre of Christian-convert Lenape by American militiamen. It was a part of the reason Chief Buckongahelas had once advocated moving west and even after a decade, the memory still burned bright in the hearts of the Lenape. Outnumbered and with terrain that didn’t assist in defense, the Lenape and Legion would suffer a defeat at Gnadenhutten, but ultimately that mattered little. At Gnadenhutten, Lenape and Legion forces fought side-by-side, allowing for a propaganda victory. Future generations of the Lenape would consider the Battle of Gnadenhutten as the beginning of the Mèlikën Kaskahtèna (literally the American Embrace) or the rising period of friendship between the Lenape and the Americans.
Back east, debate had begun over how or even if the Ohio War should continue. The British embargo had severely harmed the American economy, and in July, the embargo had been extended to Rhode Island, cutting out the chief method American traders had to bypass the embargo. Some politicians, chiefly those from New England, had begun to push for a peace settlement between American and Britain, a few going so far as to suggest abandoning the Northwest.
This option was generally unacceptable for most American politicians, but there were still a number of questions on the future of the war. The four Legions were somewhat expensive for the very indebted Union to maintain, and the states weren’t very happy with the prospect of paying for it. Proposals were put forward to decrease in their pay as a monetary saving measure. The military did have an interesting champion in Congress however, the recently elected representative from New York, Major General Horatio Gates. General Gates had a mixed reputation and his service in the American Revolution was not well considered, but in a rousing speech in mid-August, Gates would remind Congress that not paying the army could have disastrous consequences, drawing comparisons to the Newburgh Conspiracy that almost saw the army marching on Congress in 1783.
While comparisons to the Newburgh Conspiracy was hyperbolic on the part of Gates, it did get the point across that the economic situation ought to be resolved without harming the military. The question, of course was how. Many proposals would be made, and with the other various reforms and amendments to the constitution that were being passed and proposed at the time, some expected economic reform was the next economic step.
However, on March 16th, 1783, Virginia would declare itself a Grand Duchy and talks of economic reform and of the conduct of the Ohio War were buried as the Title War began.
OH! And before I forget again, I made a flag for the New Legion Patriot Corps as well, although they would just be using the republican tricolor in the Northwest.
Hello everyone! I haven't quite finished the next update, but I've got two things to ask you all. First, I plan on posting flags for every state, but I've made a mockup of an alternative presentation for the flags and a few other bits of info. Are you all interested in more like this:
Second, any suggestions for state titles? These can be anything from mundane to outlandish, the Title War is going to be the next update and if you have any ideas for titles for it, I'm very interested.
would something like this be feasible?
The Republic of...
1. Victory; cause the always win the "Maine" victories.
2. Lions; People like to call themselves lion "Maines" here.
3. Events; known for their festivities and strong cultural bla bla blaa. Out of staters are often told to get ready for the ...."Maine" event(s) during county festivals etc.
U make that yourself?
i make almost all of my maps by myself, on MS Paint!
Separate names with a comma.