Death of a Republic (A monarchical USA timeline)

How is the timeline so far?

  • It's good

    Votes: 198 64.5%
  • It's ok

    Votes: 62 20.2%
  • It's bad

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • It's really bad

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • It's gone to the Alien Space Bats

    Votes: 42 13.7%

  • Total voters
    307
I doubt it, since its not like having a German prince led to say German immigration to Albania.
Unlike Albania,the US is a popular site for migration.But otl US was pretty anti-Catholic.French revolution is also coming.A Constitutional US ruled by a French Catholic king would be popular in drawing migrants ,and a lot of French nobles migrated to during the Revolution.
 
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The real destabilizing factor there is the French Revolution is starting to fire up. Lafayette's historic support for republics yet his current status as a constitutional monarch really leaves it open ended how he is viewed by both the royalists and revolutionaries of France. While I too figure he'll just pass along his land and simply remove himself from French politics, there is more than enough uncertainty that a lot could happen.
I think that Lafayette should if anything get himself as involved in French politics as possible! France held several valuable Islands at this time, which America could gain if it were to support whichever side were to win the Revolution. Also if at some point in the future France goes to war with Spain, America could use that as a chance to take massive swathes of Mexico. Right now America is in bad shape compared to OTL, and an alliance with France would go a long way towards fixing that. Also on an interesting note Gilbert came from a really prestigious family, and many of his ancestors were very important people. I think that this would definitely make the French King more than willing to form an alliance with America.
 
I think that Lafayette should if anything get himself as involved in French politics as possible! France held several valuable Islands at this time, which America could gain if it were to support whichever side were to win the Revolution. Also if at some point in the future France goes to war with Spain, America could use that as a chance to take massive swathes of Mexico. Right now America is in bad shape compared to OTL, and an alliance with France would go a long way towards fixing that. Also on an interesting note Gilbert came from a really prestigious family, and many of his ancestors were very important people. I think that this would definitely make the French King more than willing to form an alliance with America.
France would be unlikely to cede the sugar islands to the US.As you mentioned,these islands are rich.They need the islands to pay their debt.Whatever land held by Lafayette in France isn’t suffice to pay for these islands,and the US is already under heavy debt to France.
 
Pity Louisiana is in Spanish hands and will stay that way for more than ten years. it's not like either France or Spain is doing much with Upper Louisiana. Or any land very far from New Orleans.
 
How much land does Lafayette even own in the first place? A marquis is not that high on the peerage pole...
My impression was that someone like George Washington might have had more land than Lafayette,given that Lafayette’s family may have been old,but it was never high on the pecking order.There’s also the fact there’s plenty of bankrupt Marquises in France,so your title doesn’t actually translate into wealth.And if I remember correctly,most titles do not necessarily mean you have ownership of the land...
 
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My impression was that someone like George Washington might have had more land than Lafayette,given that Lafayette’s family may have been old,but it was never high on the pecking order.There’s also the fact there’s plenty of bankrupt Marquises in France,so your title doesn’t actually translate into wealth.And if I remember correctly,most titles do not necessarily mean you have ownership of the land...
Yeah, you are probably right that Napoleon wouldn't own that much land. I couldn't find out how much land he owns, which leads me to suspect it was at most a few nice houses or something like that. The fact remains though he comes from a Prestigious family, and in exchange for helping either the Revolutionaries or the Monarch, he could probably convince them to sell/give him some French new world territory as thanks for his help in a French Revolution type event.
 
Heyo everyone, sorry for being AWOL, I've been busier than normal with university, and that's dominated my time. I'm almost done with an update on the situation in the Northwest, and an update on the reconstruction in the South. The Northwest update should be out today or tomorrow. However, my newest project for my computer science might be of some interest for some people. I'm taking a games coding class, and one of the options for the final project was to code a game mod, rather than a full game, and my choice was to make a Hearts of Iron IV mod based on Death of a Republic. Would anyone be interested in seeing this? The version made for class is going to be pretty barebones, but if people are interested, I'd post it when it's finished.

And, with that aside, I should answer the questions that were asked and I didn't answer earlier because I thought I could update quicker.


America is my city :firstimekiss:

The Stars and Stripes Forever is a pretty awesome song. It's definitely in my top 3 for the potential anthems.


maybe his son can get a courtesy title...How about the kingdom comes into conflict with some of Native Americans, and working it out later means the heir becomes the "Duke of Apache" and "Lord of the Cherokee" and the King also gets the title "Chief of chiefs" or "First speaker of the tribes". Tribes that later submit will find an advocate in the king, and Gilbert seems wise enough to court their support and arbitrate disputes between Natives and whites. Or not.....

There definitely will be a few tribes that survive by becoming royal governments, the Cherokee and Muskogee are the two I've got definite plans for. (If you remember the Republic of Sequoyah from an old spoiler, it's not named that for the reason one would think)

As for a courtesy title for the Prince Georges Washington, well it will take a bit but none will exist until there is finally an Empire.

Lafayette doesn’t have a bad coat of arms, and the family motto of “Why not?” is perfect for an American head of state. I suspect that the arms will be quartered with the shield from the Great Seal of the United States, and with a royal crown on top. The only question is flanking. Would olive branches and two classical columns work? Or representations of Minerva and Columbia?
I get your point but his family just went from marquis to Kings, thats kind of an impressive jump. Even the Tudors changed their lame original coats to a flower. That being said, I meant more imperial Coat of arms. I'm gonna be honest...Minerva and columbia flanking an Eagle would be badass.

I'm not super good with vector images, so the CoA are likely to take a long time to make. I definitely like the idea of Minerva and Columbia flanking an eagle, and the Lafayette motto will remain on the royal house's CoA.


So does Lafayette still hold any land in France? If so I see four options. First just give them to France. Second keep them as part of his demesne. Third sell them back to France. Finally and my personal favorite trade them for some of France's holdings in the Americas. I don't know if the lands in France were significant enough for them to be worth anything but they very well could be. Also how does Lafayette having been a French vassal work? Wouldn't his title as a Marquis make him technically a de jure French vassal sort of like the Normans after conquering England?
Well believe it or not this was one of the biggest factors leading up to the hundred years war. The king of England inhereted nearly half or so of France his mother Elinore of Aquitain, this caused more friction as they (if im correct) were also dukes of Normandy. Does a king bow to another when technicaly he is also a subject? Apperently its complicated. Lafayette will more likely either be allowed to hold on to it as a courtesy until it can pass to another son, or brother. Im not sure he would even be allowed revenues from the property anymore.
The real destabilizing factor there is the French Revolution is starting to fire up. Lafayette's historic support for republics yet his current status as a constitutional monarch really leaves it open ended how he is viewed by both the royalists and revolutionaries of France. While I too figure he'll just pass along his land and simply remove himself from French politics, there is more than enough uncertainty that a lot could happen.


Lafayette's holdings were a mixed bag. He held multiple titles outside of the Marquis de Lafayette, and some were fairly productive and wealthy. I've thought about having a land swap deal, or just them getting whisked away during the civil war in France. One idea I've debated was about French Guyana or at least part of the territory being transferred to Lafayette directly as compensation for losing his lands and assets back in France in order to prevent/lessen a diplomatic incident with France's "eternal" ally after his land was stripped from him by the French government in error due to confusion during the civil war. Biggest problem is that I haven't found a good source to date when the colony stopped being a financial deadweight and became profitable.


Unlike Albania,the US is a popular site for migration.But otl US was pretty anti-Catholic.French revolution is also coming.A Constitutional US ruled by a French Catholic king would be popular in drawing migrants ,and a lot of French nobles migrated to during the Revolution.

Catholics will be better received in some parts of America, but as everyone knows, the evil papists were coming to force America to kneel to Pope, so the increased welcome will still be mixed in with anti-Catholic sentiment from groups like the Red Crosses.


I think that Lafayette should if anything get himself as involved in French politics as possible! France held several valuable Islands at this time, which America could gain if it were to support whichever side were to win the Revolution. Also if at some point in the future France goes to war with Spain, America could use that as a chance to take massive swathes of Mexico. Right now America is in bad shape compared to OTL, and an alliance with France would go a long way towards fixing that. Also on an interesting note Gilbert came from a really prestigious family, and many of his ancestors were very important people. I think that this would definitely make the French King more than willing to form an alliance with America.

America-France relations will be far better than OTL if the right side wins the civil war. The Treaty of Alliance between the USA and France won't break down, at least for a while longer, if France doesn't go full Revolution. But what might be a potential prospect would be a stronger alliance or far closer trade relations.


Pity Louisiana is in Spanish hands and will stay that way for more than ten years. it's not like either France or Spain is doing much with Upper Louisiana. Or any land very far from New Orleans.

Makes it a perfect place for all of these pesky republicans who can't deal with the monarchy to settle and realize that rejecting the Union was a mistake.

Will this timeline continue into the 21st Century?

Yes. Yes it will. I'm just a slow writer.



And, finally, thank you all for reading. I've noticed that Death of a Republic was nominated for a Turtledove which is really awesome. I've never been a confident writer, so the fact that at least two people thought this was good enough to even be nominated is just super exciting. Thank you all again.
 
Yes Britain, America is Independent
Haha, when I said today, I actually did it today, not a week later! The war that will become the Ohio War has begun, and the new America is going to face its first great challenge.


"My forefather kindled the first fire at Detroit; from thence, he extended his lines to the head waters of Scioto; from thence, to its mouth; from thence, down the Ohio, to the mouth of the Wabash, and from thence to Chicago, on lake Michigan"
--Little Turtle

When Congress reconvened on January 4th, 1790, the situation in the Northwest had escalated dramatically. British diplomatic maneuvering had finally succeeded in establishing a British protectorate out of the Indian Confederacy. While the new government of “Charlotina” wasn’t exactly the most structured or authoritative, British aid to the natives had emboldened the burgeoning Confederacy/Protectorate into organizing raids across the Ohio river into Kentucky. By the time Congress was reconvening, the Kentucky militia were overwhelmed and settlers in the Ohio river valley were begging for assistance against the native tribes.

On February 19th, 1790, the American army was reorganized by an act of Congress into the Legion of the United States. The new Legion was created to serve as a professional standing army to defend the frontier of the United States, as well as to utilize the skill of the new veterans of the recent conflicts. Only one Legion, Legion I Philadelphia, was established in 1790, organized into five sub-Legions, each containing 1000 men. Under the command of Josiah Harmar, Legion I was moved to Frankfort to begin preparing to beat the natives into submission.

The Legion finally arrived in Kentucky’s de facto capital of Frankfort in early July to a Kentucky slowly descending into chaos. The effective leader of the Protectorate, Little Turtle, had been waging a campaign of destruction against settlers in the Trans-Appalachian region in order to force recognition of the independence of the native state. This campaign had uprooted some ten thousand Northwesterners and Kentuckians, and killed six hundred. Harmar, intending on ending the fighting, had two goals: Defeat Little Turtle in battle, and march on Kekionga, the effective capital of the Indian state.

Josiah Harmar was not a bad general by any means, in fact, Harmar was likely one of America’s best officers at the time. Harmar had distinguished himself during the Revolution and was considered by George Washington to have been one of his best officers. Unfortunately for Harmar, his generalship was based on Prussian military style and his chief opponent was Little Turtle, one of the greatest native military leaders in American history. With the backing of the British, Little Turtle’s army was strong enough to potentially defeat Harmar’s army. Exacerbating the issue was Harmar’s negative opinion of the natives, which led to him underestimating their military capacity. Hope was not entirely lost for Harmar however. Harmar had recruited a number of Kentucky militia to join his march, and the commander of the militia, Major Jean François Hamtramck, was far more suited to native fighting. Furthermore, the Legion I was a veteran army, better trained and capable of punching above its weight.

On July 22nd, Legion I crossed the Ohio river, only to be caught off guard by Little Turtle’s army while crossing. Despite this, the soldiers already on the riverbank held on long enough for the remainder of the Legion to successfully cross and assist in the defense. During the battle, Hamtramck and the Kentucky militia exceeded Harmar’s expectations by holding alongside the veteran troops, providing a substantial element to the Legion’s defense during what ultimately proved to be an inconclusive battle.

The Battle of the Riverbanks and the success of the Kentucky militia during the battle ought to have broken through to Harmar that the natives were more capable than he thought. Unfortunately for the Legion and the Kentucky militia, Harmar was stubbornly content to take a European-style march towards Kekionga. As the Legion marched on, Little Turtle’s army continually harassed the Legion. Attempts by smaller Legion parties to attempt to hunt down native raiding parties and harassers only led to the swift defeat of the smaller parties or the natives seemingly vanishing into thin air. To frustrate matters even more, whenever the Legion arrived at a native village, they were abandoned and often burned.

On September 4th, the Legion finally arrived in Kekionga only to find the town abandoned just like the prior towns, leaving Harmar uncertain of what exactly to do next. Unfortunately for Harmar, Little Turtle was three steps ahead of Harmar and that night, the Legion was attacked by the native army. During the initial phase of the battle Harmar was struck down by a shot in the back of the head. While it is unknown from where Harmar was shot, the most commonly accepted theory being that he was hit by accidental friendly fire, but, especially in the immediate aftermath of Harmar’s shooting, speculation existed that Harmar was shot by a disgruntled militiaman.

Irregardless of who shot Harmar, his death may have saved Legion. Immediately after Harmar’s death, leader of the third Sublegion, Andrew Jackson, and Hamtramck took charge of the situation. Jackson, the Hero of Wilmington, was well versed in defensive fighting, and Hamtramck was a very capable Indian fighter. After the two officers took charge, the Legion and militiamen were able to slowly turn the tide eventually pushing the natives back and turn what ought to have been a serious defeat for the Legion into a defeat for the native army.

The native’s defeat was not sufficient to end Charlotina Protectorate, and after the battle, Little Turtle retreated even deeper into the territory of the Protectorate while the Legion was recuperating from their near defeat. Little Turtle, somewhat humbled by the Battle, planned on doing what “he should have done first:” Calling in the British to uphold their promises to the Protectorate.
 
Also you said French Guyana....do you mean French Guiana? Heres an interesting proposal, if you go about doing this, make Guiana a seperate dukedom or something in personal union and Lafayette can make it a haven for freed slaves until them northerners get over their sensibilities and allow guiana to join formally into the Kingdom. I even have an idea for the first appointed regional governor.
 

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Give the empire the Great lakes!!!

That might be a bit ambitious at this moment, but there are disputed territories that might change hands.

Also Britain and America have yet to claim western Canada/Oregon outside of the Hudson watershed. There are potential claims that may be pressed by the victor.


Also you said French Guyana....do you mean French Guiana? Heres an interesting proposal, if you go about doing this, make Guiana a seperate dukedom or something in personal union and Lafayette can make it a haven for freed slaves until them northerners get over their sensibilities and allow guiana to join formally into the Kingdom. I even have an idea for the first appointed regional governor.

Yeah, I meant Guiana, I got the Guy/Gui out of order. I do think it would be interesting to see Guiana as a free haven for freed slaves, and there is an interesting potential in how an American Guiana would influence American foreign aims.
 
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Oh, I keep forgetting if you already have someone in mind for young Prince George to marry? I would suggest Princess Marie-Thérèse Charlotte of France. Assuming this is to high profile for such a fledgling kingdom, how about some native princess in return for aid. It would be good for future legitimacy as well.
 
200 IQ Politics by Georgia
Haha, I'm back! I know I've been pretty slow with updates, the real world's been fernangling me a bit so I haven't had much time to write. I've been without internet access for a week and a half, so this update wasn't what I planned to write, but everything was in Google Docs so we get to see a bit of Georgia's development instead.

Also, because it has been a bit since I posted a wiki infobox (and I have no self-control), here's a special one about everyone's favorite (OTL) Nicaraguan President.
WilliamWalker.PNG

"I stand today on this floor to appeal for protection from the strong arm of the government for her loyal children, irrespective of color and race, who are citizens of the southern states, and particularly of the State of Georgia."
--Hiram Rhodes Revels


Of all states, Georgia was the most heavily devastated by the slave war. While Georgia’s population had been low before the slave war, clocking in with a white population of about fifty-thousand, by the time of the 1790 census, Georgia’s white population was 20,796. Despite the fact that the majority of this lost population had not died, having actually fled to either Transocconee or Walton’s settlements in Florida, Georgian Governor George Handley and the Georgian government were acutely aware of the fact that by all rights Georgia did not have the population to be a state.

This was, of course, not even taking into consideration Georgia’s black population which, in contrast to what happened in the Carolinas, hadn’t seen a serious decrease and now outnumbered the white population three to two. Many former slaves found their masters and the families of their masters to either be dead or missing, leaving many former slaves de facto free. The military situation was even worse as many former slaves who had fought for New Africa had not been disarmed and at any moment could resume aggressive actions.

On June 21st a returning plantation owner was killed by one of these armed slaves as the plantation owner attempted to reclaim “his property.” This nearly set Georgia alight yet again, and as riots, violent protests and black-white militias began clashing across the state the Georgia government decided enough was enough. Citing the fact that Georgia was on the verge of dissolving into anarchy yet again, on July 19th suspended slavery. While this did completely disarm the brewing crisis, it was an incredibly controversial move. A large proportion of the Georgian legislature and the state’s upper class opposed this move resulting in political turmoil throughout Georgia as the pro-suspension, predominantly lower class “Country” Party and the anti-suspension, predominantly upper class “Manor” Party struggled for power.

This power struggle inadvertently legitimized the secessionists. In Transocconee the new government was rapidly stabilizing the new state whose population had swollen to fourteen thousand. Since the small republic wasn’t formally an American state, Transocconee maintained independent diplomatic relations with Spain. This made a large number of people very nervous considering that Spain was known for backing separatists in American territory. Further escalating the fears of the Georgian government was the close relations the Transocconee government, especially Governor Jared Irwin, maintained with the native Muskogee Creek.

Of particular concern was the influence of Irwin’s right hand man, Elijah Clarke, on the Muskogee. Clarke had met William Augustus Bowles, a Massachusetts Tory who was now pushing for the decentralized Muskogee to form a united, strong and independent state. While Clarke didn’t advocate for Muskogee independence, Clarke did see the potential gain in the “civilizing” of the Muscogee to be a “proper Americans.” Much to the horror of the Georgian government, the principal chief of the Muskogee, Hoboi-Hili-Miko, also saw the benefit of modernization. Clarke and the Transocconee wasn’t able to offer much, but a new idea did emerge under Clarke’s suggestions and Hoboi-Hili-Miko’s inspiration: “Indian Spirit, American Technology.”

With Georgia in political disarray, the Transocconee’s ties with Spain and the natives, and the natives, adopting a new outlook, the Federal government began to put pressure on the Georgian government to fix the situation with both Republicans and Federalists in a rare moment of cooperation threatened to use Section 4 again should Georgia not get the situation under control. Initially, this threat rang hollow as the Federal government was pretty much out of money, busy dealing with the natives in the Northwest and the Confederationalists were successfully obstructing any attempt at the Federal government intervention. However, as the war in Ohio began escalating in 1791, fears that Spain might take the advantage of the undeclared war between the USA and Britain to secure their disputed territory in Georgia led to the Federal government establishing Legion IV Savannah under the leadership of William Smallwood to secure the territories of Georgia. The greatest opposition to this rather large assumption of power by the Federal Government came not from the Confederationalists, but from Prince Gilbert. The Confederationalists had permitted the Federal government to take this course of action in order to prevent the election of a new Dictator. Prince Gilbert however felt that this action would set a precedent of the Federal government being able to use the military to force the states into line; a fear that would prove far too true in the upcoming decades.

While the exact authority Smallwood would have over the Georgian government was speculative at best, Governor Handley and the Georgian government weren’t going to take this affront to their state sitting down. With a far more serious perceived threat to Georgia than existed in the Transocconee or the Natives, the Country and Manor Parties were able to bury the hatchet, and in the kind of legislative insanity that only happens when government members are threatened with losing their jobs, the Georgian government passed eighty-four bills over the span of sixteen days, an impressive number albeit the majority were small scale affairs. The Georgian government did recognize the Transocconee Republic on the condition they drop their claim to independence and joined the Union as either a territory or state, and guaranteed the Muskogee tribe protection of their lands if they agreed to lay down their arms and not seek independence. In addition, the Georgian government promised to establish a “free territory for the benefit of the Negroes of the United States” in Southwestern Georgia that spanned nearly 25 million acres (coincidently, the promised territory was disputed between Georgia and Spain and was almost entirely native controlled). The fourth major element of Georgia’s legislative spree was a declaration that made it illegal for the Legion IV to set foot on Georgian soil, threatening to arrest the Legion IV should they try.

The great irony of Georgia’s legislative action was that the Federal troops weren’t going to force Georgia to dissolve or surrender control as the Georgians had expected. Smallwood had been granted a good deal of discretion on how to stabilize Georgia and Smallwood sympathized with the Georgian government. In fact, Smallwood’s plan had been to suppress the armed blacks, Transocconeese and the Muskogee to restore Georgian rule over Georgia. Even as this fact became widely known in Georgia, Georgians as a general whole dug in politically, celebrating their government’s actions as defending their state from the tyranny of the Federal government.
 
Glad to see this back, please elaborate more on price Gilbert in the next chaper. Im guessing la fayette had another son since i assumed George would have already been born? A chapter elaborating the life oft he royal family would also be nice, lke how they're adjusting to being royals, and how their relationship (to the americans) differes to their european counterparts.
 
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