Honestly I'm getting vibes of something rather...Japanese. Except rather than 'Shogun' there will be a 'Dictator' as implied by the Washington/Andrew Jackson wiki picture. In fact it would be pretty awesome to see how as multiple European countries must deal with rising Liberalism, Middle/Far Eastern countries deal with westernization, the United States Kingdo....Empire takes a minor 180 and starts to mildly resemble Late Imperial Japan, Byzantium, or the Ottomans but with all the westernization they didn't have or had to work for. Immigrants come because they say the laws here make every man a king, but remember...Revere the Emperor and all that. The emperor guarantees the protection of the Catholics, and the Protestants just want to say their monarch is best. I can just imagine it, some young king meets the Emperor of all North America and say's "how do you get all your peoples to love you, I've tried everything." To which the emperor might say "They tell you to do stuff?" Maybe a great rivalry could develop between the America and Brazil. Honestly this is the most interesting TL i've read in a while. I check everyday for the next update.
Death of a Republic (A monarchical USA timeline)
- Thread starter Schnozzberry
- Start date
Honestly I'm getting vibes of something rather...Japanese. Except rather than 'Shogun' there will be a 'Dictator' as implied by the Washington/Andrew Jackson wiki picture. In fact it would be pretty awesome to see how as multiple European countries must deal with rising Liberalism, Middle/Far Eastern countries deal with westernization, the United States Kingdo....Empire takes a minor 180 and starts to mildly resemble Late Imperial Japan, Byzantium, or the Ottomans but with all the westernization they didn't have or had to work for. Immigrants come because they say the laws here make every man a king, but remember...Revere the Emperor and all that. The emperor guarantees the protection of the Catholics, and the Protestants just want to say their monarch is best. I can just imagine it, some young king meets the Emperor of all North America and say's "how do you get all your peoples to love you, I've tried everything." To which the emperor might say "They tell you to do stuff?" Maybe a great rivalry could develop between the America and Brazil. Honestly this is the most interesting TL i've read in a while. I check everyday for the next update.
I actually thought of this. Maybe first a personal union before a Pan-Americana movement, followed by a war of unification. I actually was wondering if Panama could viably become the capital.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Hi everyone, it's me, an advocate for authoritarian anarchism here with another update. Except, before we get to the update, I wanted to respond and so the update is in the post immediately after.
Oh wow, that's a really good assessment of things. I'm sorry I can't talk about everything you mentioned simply because I'm somewhat outclassed here, I will mention a few things. I agree with you entirely on the adopting of names as titles, and I really like the idea of Americans not using names repeatedly to show how different they are. It's subtle, but it really makes sense and is a pretty nifty idea. When it comes to the popularity of monarchism and how it will be perceived, I haven't done enough talking about it yet, but monarchists are still a minority. In fact, the pro-Constitution Republicans are the largest group, they just lost the vote due because a large number of them were shut out of the voting process by the monarchist elites. While I definitely will touch on it more, the perception of the Revolution, Republicanism, Monarchism and America as a whole are going to be heavily debated during the nations early years.
Yeah, the pronunciation of Gilbert and a higher French influence may lead to American English being spelled significantly differently than British English. If I remember correctly, it wasn't until the 1820s that spelling reform occurred, so the official spelling might actually be Jillbear or Jillburt or however Americans end up pronouncing it. Imagine the possibility of an English where things sound like how they were spelled! Probably not though, it probably would be worse.
Excellent. Now all we have to do is drop even more of the letter u from words.
Well, thank you very much for your praise. I'd be a liar if I said I saw it myself, but I'm glad others are enjoying it. That's what makes it worthwhile to write this.
I mean, @The Merovingian, you totally didn't get it 100% right with the exception of USA-Brazil relations. Nope, not at all.
While a Brazil-USA union would be cool, despite being engineered to be the worst at football, without the French Revolution a united Brazil might not exist. I'm not quite sure on what Brazil will turn into, I am somewhat uneducated on Brazil. And for a Pan-American Union? Well, in OTL the USA was an aggressive imperialist towards the rest of the Americas, but you ain't seen nothing yet. I plan for overly aggressive imperialism to end up being what seriously overstretches and destabilizes the USA in the late 1800s.
Oh wow, that's a really good assessment of things. I'm sorry I can't talk about everything you mentioned simply because I'm somewhat outclassed here, I will mention a few things. I agree with you entirely on the adopting of names as titles, and I really like the idea of Americans not using names repeatedly to show how different they are. It's subtle, but it really makes sense and is a pretty nifty idea. When it comes to the popularity of monarchism and how it will be perceived, I haven't done enough talking about it yet, but monarchists are still a minority. In fact, the pro-Constitution Republicans are the largest group, they just lost the vote due because a large number of them were shut out of the voting process by the monarchist elites. While I definitely will touch on it more, the perception of the Revolution, Republicanism, Monarchism and America as a whole are going to be heavily debated during the nations early years.
Yeah, the pronunciation of Gilbert and a higher French influence may lead to American English being spelled significantly differently than British English. If I remember correctly, it wasn't until the 1820s that spelling reform occurred, so the official spelling might actually be Jillbear or Jillburt or however Americans end up pronouncing it. Imagine the possibility of an English where things sound like how they were spelled! Probably not though, it probably would be worse.
Excellent. Now all we have to do is drop even more of the letter u from words.
Well, thank you very much for your praise. I'd be a liar if I said I saw it myself, but I'm glad others are enjoying it. That's what makes it worthwhile to write this.
I mean, @The Merovingian, you totally didn't get it 100% right with the exception of USA-Brazil relations. Nope, not at all.
While a Brazil-USA union would be cool, despite being engineered to be the worst at football, without the French Revolution a united Brazil might not exist. I'm not quite sure on what Brazil will turn into, I am somewhat uneducated on Brazil. And for a Pan-American Union? Well, in OTL the USA was an aggressive imperialist towards the rest of the Americas, but you ain't seen nothing yet. I plan for overly aggressive imperialism to end up being what seriously overstretches and destabilizes the USA in the late 1800s.
East Florida vs. George Walton
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
And it's update time!
"In Florida, we're the best melting pot in the world. We love everybody coming to our state."
--Rick Scott
Six thousand Georgians departed from Savannah on September 4th. As the band moved south, it grew slightly as the smaller townships joined in the flight. On September twelfth, the Georgians finally crossed into native territory proper. On September 14th, the Georgians encountered the Muscogee for the first time. Walton personally assured the Muscogee that the Georgians had no intentions of staying in their land; and even ordered the Georgians to be respectful and not harm the natives in any way. Despite this, the Muscogee remained suspicious of the Georgians, and over the next two weeks, Muscogee tribesmen shadowed the Georgians. On September 27th, the Muscogee attacked the Georgian band. Unfortunately for the Muscogee, they attacked the band in an area primarily made up of militiamen and were cut down swiftly.
Walton was infuriated. Despite his assurances and his order to keep the peace, the natives had attacked the Georgians, and now the Georgians were going to attack the natives. Reorganizing the Georgian band into a more defendable procession, the Georgians resumed their slow trek to St. Augustine. Sometime between October 1st and October 4th, they crossed the border and on October 5th, Walton’s reorganization of the Georgian band paid off.
The exact location of the Battle of Bloody Crick has never been determined due to contradictory records on where the Georgians were on October 5th. What is known is that approximately twelve hundred Indians, most likely of the Seminole tribe, attacked the Georgian band. Unfortunately for the Indians, the battle was a massacre for them. Fewer than one hundred Georgians died, yet between five and nine hundred Indians died. Following the battle, Walton ordered five hundred Georgians to chase the natives. The five hundred would come across a native village on October 9th, and massacred the village. Although no Georgian knew it, and the fighting proper wouldn't start for nearly two years, the Battle of Bloody Creek is considered by some historians to be the beginning of the Last Indian War which would end the remaining native societies in the Floridas.
Following the Battle of Bloody Creek, the Georgians would be harassed as they continued south to St. Augustine. Exact numbers are unknown, but it is believed that one in six Georgians died before the band arrived at St. Augustine on October 24th. Upon arriving, George Walton met with Governor Vicente Manuel de Cespedes. Cespedes was receptive of the Georgians due to his current encouragement of non-Spanish settlers in East Florida, and allowed the Georgians to settle in East Florida under the condition that they submit to the Catholic church. While most Georgians grumbled, all “converted” although most did so in name alone, secretly remaining Protestant.
While the few Georgians who accepted Catholicism stayed in St. Augustine, those who “converted” followed Walton slightly northward, starting a new town three miles north of St. Augustine. The town was initially called New Savannah after Walton’s death in 1809, New Savannah would be renamed Waltonia. For the first few months, New Savannah struggled with food problems and disease however as the political and military situation deteriorated in the USA, New Savannah continued growing thanks to an increasingly large number of refugees fleeing either the monarchists, or the New Africans.
Governor Cespedes began to grow concerned over the swelling number of Americans in East Florida, and launched an investigation into the American populous in March. It quickly became apparent that the number of refugees was far higher now than prior, and very few were converting to Catholicism. Thus, on March 19th, Governor Cespedes demanded that Walton either enforce the conversion to Catholicism, or expel the newcomers. In addition, Cespedes also demanded that all American immigrants to East Florida from this date forward were to be turned away.
Walton didn’t take the news well. Despite having only been in East Florida for six months, Walton already had ambitions for Florida, and they could only be achieved with a large American population in Florida. As such, Walton decided to rally against Governor Cespedes and on March 25th, a band of six hundred former Georgians marched into St. Augustine and threatened to overthrow Cespedes if he didn’t reopen East Florida to American immigrants once more. Cespedes would concede, however the seeds of rebellion were sown in East Florida. On March 26th, Cespedes would send a letter to the Captain-General in Havana, asking for troops to keep the peace. The struggle for East Florida had begun.
"In Florida, we're the best melting pot in the world. We love everybody coming to our state."
--Rick Scott
Six thousand Georgians departed from Savannah on September 4th. As the band moved south, it grew slightly as the smaller townships joined in the flight. On September twelfth, the Georgians finally crossed into native territory proper. On September 14th, the Georgians encountered the Muscogee for the first time. Walton personally assured the Muscogee that the Georgians had no intentions of staying in their land; and even ordered the Georgians to be respectful and not harm the natives in any way. Despite this, the Muscogee remained suspicious of the Georgians, and over the next two weeks, Muscogee tribesmen shadowed the Georgians. On September 27th, the Muscogee attacked the Georgian band. Unfortunately for the Muscogee, they attacked the band in an area primarily made up of militiamen and were cut down swiftly.
Walton was infuriated. Despite his assurances and his order to keep the peace, the natives had attacked the Georgians, and now the Georgians were going to attack the natives. Reorganizing the Georgian band into a more defendable procession, the Georgians resumed their slow trek to St. Augustine. Sometime between October 1st and October 4th, they crossed the border and on October 5th, Walton’s reorganization of the Georgian band paid off.
The exact location of the Battle of Bloody Crick has never been determined due to contradictory records on where the Georgians were on October 5th. What is known is that approximately twelve hundred Indians, most likely of the Seminole tribe, attacked the Georgian band. Unfortunately for the Indians, the battle was a massacre for them. Fewer than one hundred Georgians died, yet between five and nine hundred Indians died. Following the battle, Walton ordered five hundred Georgians to chase the natives. The five hundred would come across a native village on October 9th, and massacred the village. Although no Georgian knew it, and the fighting proper wouldn't start for nearly two years, the Battle of Bloody Creek is considered by some historians to be the beginning of the Last Indian War which would end the remaining native societies in the Floridas.
Following the Battle of Bloody Creek, the Georgians would be harassed as they continued south to St. Augustine. Exact numbers are unknown, but it is believed that one in six Georgians died before the band arrived at St. Augustine on October 24th. Upon arriving, George Walton met with Governor Vicente Manuel de Cespedes. Cespedes was receptive of the Georgians due to his current encouragement of non-Spanish settlers in East Florida, and allowed the Georgians to settle in East Florida under the condition that they submit to the Catholic church. While most Georgians grumbled, all “converted” although most did so in name alone, secretly remaining Protestant.
While the few Georgians who accepted Catholicism stayed in St. Augustine, those who “converted” followed Walton slightly northward, starting a new town three miles north of St. Augustine. The town was initially called New Savannah after Walton’s death in 1809, New Savannah would be renamed Waltonia. For the first few months, New Savannah struggled with food problems and disease however as the political and military situation deteriorated in the USA, New Savannah continued growing thanks to an increasingly large number of refugees fleeing either the monarchists, or the New Africans.
Governor Cespedes began to grow concerned over the swelling number of Americans in East Florida, and launched an investigation into the American populous in March. It quickly became apparent that the number of refugees was far higher now than prior, and very few were converting to Catholicism. Thus, on March 19th, Governor Cespedes demanded that Walton either enforce the conversion to Catholicism, or expel the newcomers. In addition, Cespedes also demanded that all American immigrants to East Florida from this date forward were to be turned away.
Walton didn’t take the news well. Despite having only been in East Florida for six months, Walton already had ambitions for Florida, and they could only be achieved with a large American population in Florida. As such, Walton decided to rally against Governor Cespedes and on March 25th, a band of six hundred former Georgians marched into St. Augustine and threatened to overthrow Cespedes if he didn’t reopen East Florida to American immigrants once more. Cespedes would concede, however the seeds of rebellion were sown in East Florida. On March 26th, Cespedes would send a letter to the Captain-General in Havana, asking for troops to keep the peace. The struggle for East Florida had begun.
@Schnozzberry
Does this mean that we could end up seeing an independent Republic of (East) Florida sometime in the timeline's future. Frankly, the monarchists should be encouraging such inclinations. Why? Because it'd be a good way to get rid of those pesky Republicans. Don't like having a King/Emperor? Why don't you create your own country somewhere else? Plus while Florida is quite marshy it's still got a ton more land for Republicans to make their new home than Rhode Island does.
I also like the idea of Alt-Mormons building their own country in the West sometime in the future.
And if the American capital is at New York the Royal/Imperial Palace could be build in Brooklyn, since the area of OTL Brooklyn was a ridiculously underpopulated rural area the time and wouldn't really start growing in population for at least a half-century.
Does this mean that we could end up seeing an independent Republic of (East) Florida sometime in the timeline's future. Frankly, the monarchists should be encouraging such inclinations. Why? Because it'd be a good way to get rid of those pesky Republicans. Don't like having a King/Emperor? Why don't you create your own country somewhere else? Plus while Florida is quite marshy it's still got a ton more land for Republicans to make their new home than Rhode Island does.
I also like the idea of Alt-Mormons building their own country in the West sometime in the future.
And if the American capital is at New York the Royal/Imperial Palace could be build in Brooklyn, since the area of OTL Brooklyn was a ridiculously underpopulated rural area the time and wouldn't really start growing in population for at least a half-century.
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And as a added bonus, if they all die from diseases or worse down there, they're no longer a issue to the Monarchists!
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
We will see an independent East Florida eventually, although it may not remain a republic either.
The Christian State of California and the Mojave?
I'm not quite sure where the capital and palace will be. New York/Brooklyn does make sense, but the south might throw a hissyfit. Whether or not that works would be up for debate though.
Yellow fever won't catch itself!
Will it become a monarchy too or will it become a dictatorship? I can see Walton's family going the way of Napoleon. Namely starting out elected before giving themselves the crown. It just seems like something the children of an ambitious man like Walton would do. Especially since he effectively usurped control of Georgia from its elected government before the Georgian Exodus.
The funny thing is that I was totally thinking of California when I wrote that. Giving Alt-Mormons control over the gold fields of California would do well to cement their country's independence. We need an name that rugged, hardworking, yet pious people would pick. I'm thinking New Canaan as a way to liken it to the biblical
The only Southern state that's worth a damn at this point is Virginia. Literally, everything south of Virginia only exists in the form of government-in-exiles. They have long since lost whatever power they had. I think that Virginia would understand that they're outvoted this time. The palace could be built in the OTL Brooklyn area and the rest of the government buildings could be built in Manhattan since while it has the most people of the OTL boroughs they've still got only 60,000 people at this time.
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Ssssh, I'm dead.
Acktually, I got busy with finals, and then went home over the break. Problem is, I left my laptop power cable in my dorm. So, I've been doing writing/research on my tracphone which is slow as all getgo, so it'll be a bit still. I was hoping to get it out faster, but my tracphone can't actually load the full document I've stored my notes and this timeline's text in without lagging massively. My apologies for this, but I am almost done with a new update which will be on New Africa.
Well thanks for informing us on the lack of update, honestly thought this might be dead, and I really enjoyed it
Schnozzberry
Gone Fishin'
Well thanks for informing us on the lack of update, honestly thought this might be dead, and I really enjoyed it
Don't worry about it dying, I fully intend on finishing this unless I die IRL. Not so fun fact, there was another timeline yonks ago with a similar premise (USA->monarchy) where the author actually died, so I suppose there is a precedent for this happening.
Yipes, sorry!
Well, I better add something of vague substance then. This froze my phone for a few seconds when I copied it out of Google drive, but here's a wikibox that's relevant to the next update:
Skallagrim
Banned
Aw, man... the Know-Nothings and the KKK got married and had a monstrous child, it seems.
Now I'm wondering what an organization like the OTL Red Cross would call themselves to avoid being misidentified as a group of far-right assholes.
Is Nikism TTL Fascism?
Is Nikism TTL Fascism?
Will there also be an armed paramilitary force called the Salvation Army?