Dead by Dawn: The Road to Revolution
- Thread starter Enigmajones
- Start date
Still on the first page atm. I'll probably finish by tonight. I like how you're giving some thought to the Asian aspect until most TLs which stick to Europe (I know it requires more research).
Its really Euro-centric, but Im trying to do the Asian portion, thanks to help from Sumeragi, lots of help.
I finished reading. It seems pretty good so far. It's kinda funny to see the Nazis reduced to mere insurgents. Hopefully Germany can get back on track by the end of the century, but it certainly will be very different. Poland seems to be getting more and more powerful, I have a feeling that they will come to butt heads with the USSR sometime, but then again there might not even be a USSR by the time that conflict comes.
Regarding Asia, it's interesting to see Zhang Zuolin and Chiang Kai-shek each heading a "Republic of China" (yes I know CKS is dead now). Without the Communists messing everything up in the 1930s, perhaps China will be able to oppose Japan more easily, but only time can tell. Then again, regarding the CCP, it's worthy to note that they had also in OTL been reduced to "country outlaws", only to make their base in Yan'an and build up forces and expand their territory from there. They may still make a comeback in this TL.
Regarding Asia, it's interesting to see Zhang Zuolin and Chiang Kai-shek each heading a "Republic of China" (yes I know CKS is dead now). Without the Communists messing everything up in the 1930s, perhaps China will be able to oppose Japan more easily, but only time can tell. Then again, regarding the CCP, it's worthy to note that they had also in OTL been reduced to "country outlaws", only to make their base in Yan'an and build up forces and expand their territory from there. They may still make a comeback in this TL.
And Yankee Doodle Went To Town...
In the 1920's, while the rest of the world was struggling, the United States was facing unmatched prosperity. The 20's was a time of social growth and as a result there was a traditionalist backlash. This included the passage of the Volstead Act of 1920, which made alcoholic beverages illegal. There were loopholes, including the legalization of Sacramental wine and legalized prescription of alcohol in certain quantities. It was during this time that the Presidency of Warren Harding ended as a result of his death, which resulted in the rise to power of Vice President Calvin Coolidge. Coolidge, the former Governor of Massachusetts, was the expected standard bearer of the Republican and did not disappoint, winning the Republican nomination for the presidency and went up against the Democratic candidate William G. McAdoo, who received the nomination thanks to the support of the Prohibitionists and the Ku Klux Klan. The election of 1924 was heated and the breaking point came when Coolidge was asked to define an American. The answer, while not inflammatory, was twisted by the McAdoo campaign to sound as if Coolidge favored immigrants and "negroes" over the average American. As a result, McAdoo was elected to the office of President, with Oscar Underwood as his vice president. President McAdoo's first term saw the unprecedented rise of the Ku Klux Klan. The Klan, afraid of Coolidge's plans for the United States, had thrown total support behind the McAdoo/Davis campaign and in some cases were suspected of rigging elections.
Throughout the country, opposition to Prohibition continued to grow with the circumvention of the Volstead Act being assisted by the growth of organized crime and corrupt politicians. McAdoo was not blind to this, but decided it was best to ignore it beginning what would become referred to as the "Second Gilded Age". The laissez faire attitude adopted by the McAdoo presidency lead to unlimited economic growth. By the time re-election came in 1928, McAdoo and Davis easily defeated the Republican ticket of Lowden/Hoover. A year into McAdoo's second term, the stock market crashed, causing unemployment to skyrocket. As a result dissatisfaction with the ruling party became increasingly apparent. McAdoo became one of the most unpopular presidents in American history and as a result it became clear the next president would be a Republican. In the upcoming election of 1932, the main candidates were Herbert Hoover, the former Secretary of Commerce, John J. Blaine, Senator and former Governor of Wisconsin, and Joseph Irwin France, a former Senator from Maryland. The original frontrunner was Hoover, who ran on a promise to return to the prosperity of the 1920's and the Harding Administration, even if his economic policies were considered a carbon copy of McAdoo's failed policies. As a result of this, Blaine jumped to the forefront, becoming the favorite progressive in the election. Blaine would win the nomination and the election, with the Blaine/France ticket going up against the progressive Democratic Governor of New York, Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Minority Leader of the House, John Nance Garner. Blaine won by a landslide setting in motion the future of the United States.
In the 1920's, while the rest of the world was struggling, the United States was facing unmatched prosperity. The 20's was a time of social growth and as a result there was a traditionalist backlash. This included the passage of the Volstead Act of 1920, which made alcoholic beverages illegal. There were loopholes, including the legalization of Sacramental wine and legalized prescription of alcohol in certain quantities. It was during this time that the Presidency of Warren Harding ended as a result of his death, which resulted in the rise to power of Vice President Calvin Coolidge. Coolidge, the former Governor of Massachusetts, was the expected standard bearer of the Republican and did not disappoint, winning the Republican nomination for the presidency and went up against the Democratic candidate William G. McAdoo, who received the nomination thanks to the support of the Prohibitionists and the Ku Klux Klan. The election of 1924 was heated and the breaking point came when Coolidge was asked to define an American. The answer, while not inflammatory, was twisted by the McAdoo campaign to sound as if Coolidge favored immigrants and "negroes" over the average American. As a result, McAdoo was elected to the office of President, with Oscar Underwood as his vice president. President McAdoo's first term saw the unprecedented rise of the Ku Klux Klan. The Klan, afraid of Coolidge's plans for the United States, had thrown total support behind the McAdoo/Davis campaign and in some cases were suspected of rigging elections.
Throughout the country, opposition to Prohibition continued to grow with the circumvention of the Volstead Act being assisted by the growth of organized crime and corrupt politicians. McAdoo was not blind to this, but decided it was best to ignore it beginning what would become referred to as the "Second Gilded Age". The laissez faire attitude adopted by the McAdoo presidency lead to unlimited economic growth. By the time re-election came in 1928, McAdoo and Davis easily defeated the Republican ticket of Lowden/Hoover. A year into McAdoo's second term, the stock market crashed, causing unemployment to skyrocket. As a result dissatisfaction with the ruling party became increasingly apparent. McAdoo became one of the most unpopular presidents in American history and as a result it became clear the next president would be a Republican. In the upcoming election of 1932, the main candidates were Herbert Hoover, the former Secretary of Commerce, John J. Blaine, Senator and former Governor of Wisconsin, and Joseph Irwin France, a former Senator from Maryland. The original frontrunner was Hoover, who ran on a promise to return to the prosperity of the 1920's and the Harding Administration, even if his economic policies were considered a carbon copy of McAdoo's failed policies. As a result of this, Blaine jumped to the forefront, becoming the favorite progressive in the election. Blaine would win the nomination and the election, with the Blaine/France ticket going up against the progressive Democratic Governor of New York, Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Minority Leader of the House, John Nance Garner. Blaine won by a landslide setting in motion the future of the United States.
Fairly fascinating TL, mate. I just finished the last few updates and can't wait for the next!
Two Presidents and a Depression
The presidency of John James Blaine, was marked by the repealing of the Volstead Act, which had been kept in its totality by the McAdoo Administration. The abolition of prohibition helped boost the president early on, along with his plans for the economy. Blaine's economic plans, included a nationalization to a degree. This included the creation of the Third National Bank and newly created bureaus to handle the rampant unemployment. Blaine, although popular, became sickly in 1933 and died of a heart attack shortly afterwards. His Vice President, Joseph France, was a radical. He was the definition of progressive, not only in the sense of being liberal, but in his opinions on communism. Under President France, the United States began to openly court the Soviet Union and its leader Leon Trotsky. President France, was also noted for his minor support for the National Socialists in Germany, and although it was never proven, shipments of arms to the Nazis were believed to have come from the United States. France began to push forward economic programs that reflected a more socialist lean, causing a backlash from the more conservative members of the Republican party and a division of the Democrats, with the more progressive voters and politicians switching to the Republicans. As a result the Democrats gained the more conservative end of the party. The Democrats also began to grow more and more isolationist, as France and the Republicans began to approach the concept of internationalization. The Presidents popularity was increased as the working mans life became better. Public work programs were quite common at the time and were opposed by the Democrats, who agreed that a Laissez faire policy was best in the world of business.
In 1936, the Democrats put forward the former governor of Georgia, Richard Russell Junior, a conservative with clout in the Southern spectrum and his running mate, Cordell Hull of Tennessee. The Russell/Hull ticket was defeated in a landslide victory for the France administration. France's running mate was Kansas Governor Alf Landon. Landon would be remembered for nothing but being a seat filler. Regardless of the Vice President, France remained popular and although his popularity continued, his programs weren't working. The economy had yet to recover to the state it was in during the McAdoo Administration and as a result, many people were getting tired of just getting along. In 1939, President France passed away, pushing Landon to the forefront of the party for the upcoming 1940 election. Landon would be going up against a Democratic Party burgeoned by the failure of the Republican Party's failures to fix the economy. The Democrats had no frontrunner, but many different candidates. It included John N. Garner and Charles Lindbergh were able to jump to the head of the pack and while Garner gained the nomination, with Lindbergh as his VP candidate. However, Landon was able to win a close election, thanks to the nomination of Robert Taft to the position of Vice President. Thanks to the good feelings left over from the France administration, Landon was able to win the election and the United States prepared for 4 more years of a Republican White House.
The presidency of John James Blaine, was marked by the repealing of the Volstead Act, which had been kept in its totality by the McAdoo Administration. The abolition of prohibition helped boost the president early on, along with his plans for the economy. Blaine's economic plans, included a nationalization to a degree. This included the creation of the Third National Bank and newly created bureaus to handle the rampant unemployment. Blaine, although popular, became sickly in 1933 and died of a heart attack shortly afterwards. His Vice President, Joseph France, was a radical. He was the definition of progressive, not only in the sense of being liberal, but in his opinions on communism. Under President France, the United States began to openly court the Soviet Union and its leader Leon Trotsky. President France, was also noted for his minor support for the National Socialists in Germany, and although it was never proven, shipments of arms to the Nazis were believed to have come from the United States. France began to push forward economic programs that reflected a more socialist lean, causing a backlash from the more conservative members of the Republican party and a division of the Democrats, with the more progressive voters and politicians switching to the Republicans. As a result the Democrats gained the more conservative end of the party. The Democrats also began to grow more and more isolationist, as France and the Republicans began to approach the concept of internationalization. The Presidents popularity was increased as the working mans life became better. Public work programs were quite common at the time and were opposed by the Democrats, who agreed that a Laissez faire policy was best in the world of business.
In 1936, the Democrats put forward the former governor of Georgia, Richard Russell Junior, a conservative with clout in the Southern spectrum and his running mate, Cordell Hull of Tennessee. The Russell/Hull ticket was defeated in a landslide victory for the France administration. France's running mate was Kansas Governor Alf Landon. Landon would be remembered for nothing but being a seat filler. Regardless of the Vice President, France remained popular and although his popularity continued, his programs weren't working. The economy had yet to recover to the state it was in during the McAdoo Administration and as a result, many people were getting tired of just getting along. In 1939, President France passed away, pushing Landon to the forefront of the party for the upcoming 1940 election. Landon would be going up against a Democratic Party burgeoned by the failure of the Republican Party's failures to fix the economy. The Democrats had no frontrunner, but many different candidates. It included John N. Garner and Charles Lindbergh were able to jump to the head of the pack and while Garner gained the nomination, with Lindbergh as his VP candidate. However, Landon was able to win a close election, thanks to the nomination of Robert Taft to the position of Vice President. Thanks to the good feelings left over from the France administration, Landon was able to win the election and the United States prepared for 4 more years of a Republican White House.
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Die Alter Mann
After the failure of the 1st Danzig War, President Von Schleicher was faced with a country torn apart by war. The wreckage from the civil war had yet to be rebuilt although allies from abroad, including the United States and South Americans, helped rebuild city centers destroyed in the fighting. Much of the new buildings reflected a minimalist architecture, much like the new Fascist cities being constructed throughout Italy. Although most construction would not be finished until 1953, the reconstruction of Germany or Umbauen, would go down as a credit to Schleichers regime and explain his popularity in future generations of Germans and his reputation as the father of modern Germany. His rule was not unopposed however and in Bavaria and Saxony, symbols of the failed revolution were quite common. The swastika, although officially banned, became a symbol of liberty in the German State, as it symbolized defiance against the Reichswehr and their rule. It was during the 40's when German culture began its modern development. After years of war, the people wanted peace and stability. The failure of the Danzig War was a mark of the German people's mood. There were no riots, just sadness for those who had lost sons and fathers to the front. Trade with the rest of Europe became normalized by the late 40's and relations with Western Europe were reestablished almost immediately. In the east, the Germans maintained relations with Moscow and Bucharest, but there was a cold relation between Poland and Germany. Many felt that the animosity was not just over the last war or Danzig, but the lost province of East Prussia. Many Germans felt that East Prussia was rightfully the territory of the German State and that its people were being forced to remain free of Germany thanks to Franco-Polish influence.
These feeling were not just held by the people, they were encouraged by the government. Reichskanzler Hugenberg, used state radio and press to convince the people that East Prussia was willing to rejoin Germany, if only it wasn't held back by Rydz-Smigly and La Rocque. Officially Schleicher had a good report with the French President, but in fact the two were great rivals. They had a personal hatred for each other and clashed because both felt that, were it not for the other, they would rule the continent. It is believed that the threat of La Rocque's France is what kept Germany from invading Poland again during Schleichers presidency, as it was only France's distraction in the Yunnan that gave Schleicher the free hand he desired. In Britain, von Schleicher was seen as a convenient leader, as he was not only powerful, but sane. He was not an uncommon leader in Europe, as military dictators ruled throughout Europe. In Spain, Damaso Berenguer held the power, Pagalos in Greece, Horthy in Hungary, Rydz-Smigly in Poland and Peter the Second in Yugoslavia. They were considered far better than the ideological dictators that reigned supreme in Romania. The LANC and their leader Codreanu, were looked at wearily from Western Europe, where Henri de Man and his Labour Movement were gaining traction with the local populace. Schleicher was an ally of Romania, but only when it suited himself. When Tukhachevsky took power in Moscow in 1946, Schleicher was quick to reestablish closer relations with the Soviets.
As the 40's ended, Schleicher began to crack down on attempts at liberalization being made by the populace. The influence of literature and culture from East Prussia, known as Free Germany to the younger generations of the 50's, was becoming overwhelming, with East Prussia becoming a haven for musicians. In Free Germany, the rule of Otto Braun was that of a benevolent ruler. Although it was a technically a multi-party democracy, Braun was never voted out of power, and would remain in control until his death in 1955. Free Germany was an SPD stronghold and was opposed completely to the German State. In culture, it became more akin to the Baltic States, becoming friendly with Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. It was also towards the end the 40's in which the Nazi guerilla's lost their strength. The Nazi's became nothing more then a terrorist organization, being supplied by the government in Xian in China. Von Schleicher became sickly in 1954, and died in 1956 of natural causes.
After the failure of the 1st Danzig War, President Von Schleicher was faced with a country torn apart by war. The wreckage from the civil war had yet to be rebuilt although allies from abroad, including the United States and South Americans, helped rebuild city centers destroyed in the fighting. Much of the new buildings reflected a minimalist architecture, much like the new Fascist cities being constructed throughout Italy. Although most construction would not be finished until 1953, the reconstruction of Germany or Umbauen, would go down as a credit to Schleichers regime and explain his popularity in future generations of Germans and his reputation as the father of modern Germany. His rule was not unopposed however and in Bavaria and Saxony, symbols of the failed revolution were quite common. The swastika, although officially banned, became a symbol of liberty in the German State, as it symbolized defiance against the Reichswehr and their rule. It was during the 40's when German culture began its modern development. After years of war, the people wanted peace and stability. The failure of the Danzig War was a mark of the German people's mood. There were no riots, just sadness for those who had lost sons and fathers to the front. Trade with the rest of Europe became normalized by the late 40's and relations with Western Europe were reestablished almost immediately. In the east, the Germans maintained relations with Moscow and Bucharest, but there was a cold relation between Poland and Germany. Many felt that the animosity was not just over the last war or Danzig, but the lost province of East Prussia. Many Germans felt that East Prussia was rightfully the territory of the German State and that its people were being forced to remain free of Germany thanks to Franco-Polish influence.
These feeling were not just held by the people, they were encouraged by the government. Reichskanzler Hugenberg, used state radio and press to convince the people that East Prussia was willing to rejoin Germany, if only it wasn't held back by Rydz-Smigly and La Rocque. Officially Schleicher had a good report with the French President, but in fact the two were great rivals. They had a personal hatred for each other and clashed because both felt that, were it not for the other, they would rule the continent. It is believed that the threat of La Rocque's France is what kept Germany from invading Poland again during Schleichers presidency, as it was only France's distraction in the Yunnan that gave Schleicher the free hand he desired. In Britain, von Schleicher was seen as a convenient leader, as he was not only powerful, but sane. He was not an uncommon leader in Europe, as military dictators ruled throughout Europe. In Spain, Damaso Berenguer held the power, Pagalos in Greece, Horthy in Hungary, Rydz-Smigly in Poland and Peter the Second in Yugoslavia. They were considered far better than the ideological dictators that reigned supreme in Romania. The LANC and their leader Codreanu, were looked at wearily from Western Europe, where Henri de Man and his Labour Movement were gaining traction with the local populace. Schleicher was an ally of Romania, but only when it suited himself. When Tukhachevsky took power in Moscow in 1946, Schleicher was quick to reestablish closer relations with the Soviets.
As the 40's ended, Schleicher began to crack down on attempts at liberalization being made by the populace. The influence of literature and culture from East Prussia, known as Free Germany to the younger generations of the 50's, was becoming overwhelming, with East Prussia becoming a haven for musicians. In Free Germany, the rule of Otto Braun was that of a benevolent ruler. Although it was a technically a multi-party democracy, Braun was never voted out of power, and would remain in control until his death in 1955. Free Germany was an SPD stronghold and was opposed completely to the German State. In culture, it became more akin to the Baltic States, becoming friendly with Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. It was also towards the end the 40's in which the Nazi guerilla's lost their strength. The Nazi's became nothing more then a terrorist organization, being supplied by the government in Xian in China. Von Schleicher became sickly in 1954, and died in 1956 of natural causes.
I don't think such a scenario involving Nazis has been written before. Interesting.
That said I have to point few things relating developments related to Poland. Well, few is a misnomer. You got most of things wrong.
For example: you mention Pilsudski and Rydz-Smigly rule in Poland. And the latter is explicitly called a President. Problem: none of them were Presidents OTL. From 1926 onwards the President was Ignacy Moscicki - 1st term 26-33, 2nd 33-39(40). In 1940 OTL it was expected that Rydz-Smigly will become President, but WW2 intervened.
Now, there's a temptation to put Rydz-Smigly as President starting in 1933. Another problem: he raised into importance only after 1933, with becoming a Pilsudzki's successor only by 1935. And even then it took until, IIRC, 1938 before he became the unquestionable leader of Poland. Before 1935 it's more likely that smn else would eventually rise to the top - i.e. Aleksander Prystor, one of the "colonels", one of the most trusted by the Pilsudzki before falling out in 1933, or Walery Slawek, widely considered to be a most important of the "colonels", founder of the BBWR (Sanacja supporting popular movement). Especially the latter was for many years considered an unofficial heir of Pilsudzki.
Now, foreign politics: ITTL after 1926 coup-Poland is supposed to get closer to France, Czechoslovakia and UK.
Unlikely. First, OTL Sanacja had colder relations with France than pre-1926 governments, and considering that May 1926 happened, among other things, because of corruption of the then froncophile governments, I don't see how it'd change. Second, Czechoslovakia - before 1926 relations were improving, and after 1926 they started getting worse again. I don't see things differing ITTL either. Third - UK. OTL before 1939 UK pretty much ignored Poland. Even though there were tries on behalf of Poland to change that. I don't see how things may change here as well.
And lastly about Gdansk/Danzig: it was always called Wolne Miasto Gdansk in Polish, so the bit about changing its name has absolutely no sense.
It'd be all for now.
That said I have to point few things relating developments related to Poland. Well, few is a misnomer. You got most of things wrong.
For example: you mention Pilsudski and Rydz-Smigly rule in Poland. And the latter is explicitly called a President. Problem: none of them were Presidents OTL. From 1926 onwards the President was Ignacy Moscicki - 1st term 26-33, 2nd 33-39(40). In 1940 OTL it was expected that Rydz-Smigly will become President, but WW2 intervened.
Now, there's a temptation to put Rydz-Smigly as President starting in 1933. Another problem: he raised into importance only after 1933, with becoming a Pilsudzki's successor only by 1935. And even then it took until, IIRC, 1938 before he became the unquestionable leader of Poland. Before 1935 it's more likely that smn else would eventually rise to the top - i.e. Aleksander Prystor, one of the "colonels", one of the most trusted by the Pilsudzki before falling out in 1933, or Walery Slawek, widely considered to be a most important of the "colonels", founder of the BBWR (Sanacja supporting popular movement). Especially the latter was for many years considered an unofficial heir of Pilsudzki.
Now, foreign politics: ITTL after 1926 coup-Poland is supposed to get closer to France, Czechoslovakia and UK.
Unlikely. First, OTL Sanacja had colder relations with France than pre-1926 governments, and considering that May 1926 happened, among other things, because of corruption of the then froncophile governments, I don't see how it'd change. Second, Czechoslovakia - before 1926 relations were improving, and after 1926 they started getting worse again. I don't see things differing ITTL either. Third - UK. OTL before 1939 UK pretty much ignored Poland. Even though there were tries on behalf of Poland to change that. I don't see how things may change here as well.
And lastly about Gdansk/Danzig: it was always called Wolne Miasto Gdansk in Polish, so the bit about changing its name has absolutely no sense.
It'd be all for now.
You know when I saw your name, for some reason I thought it would be a tad negative. The United Kingdom is alternate in this timeline and things do change. Czechoslovakia did have cold relations with Poland and they do have the same ITTL. However, they would rather look to Poland as a friend then Militaristic Germany, Fascist Italy, Right Wing France and the other assorted shit storm that is Europe. I admit to being wrong about the President thing, that was a misnomer. I meant Chief of State, in the fashion of Pilsudski. Rydz-Smigly becomes the Chief of State after the death of Pilsudski. As for Gdansk/Danzig, I understand that it was already called that in Polish, however to the average reader who would think of it Danzig, the name change would be an official change. No longer would there be any recognition of Danzig as a state, but Gdansk as a Polish city. I will change Rydz-Smigly, if I can but he's already been mentioned numerous times as the leader of Poland.
Franco-Polish relations ITTL boils down to this. No one in France wants Poland to fall to Germany. That is essentially the basis of the Croix-de-Feu government in France. Anti-German sentiment.
And on another note, how do you enjoy the bits that are not about Poland?
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By the way, I could really use some help with Britain ITTL. And not to have any spoilers but there will be an Anglo-French War in the late 50's.
At this point I've done to much to go back. When I redo the TL and correct my mistake I will take all of what you've said into account.
The Polish bits. Also if I can find the time, Ill post about the upcoming World War.
No I will. I meant once I finish this timeline, I want to streamline it and do a year by year focus on each important event. Or something close to that. AKA a lot more detail will be added. I also have to finish up my Chinese updates. The Western War, the resulting Yunnan War and all the rest of the goodies.