Dead at Bannockburn

Battle of Bannockburn - 23 June 1314

(Excerpt from English history book)
On the fields occurred one of the most infamous episodes in Scottish history. Sir Henry de Bohun, nephew of the Earl of Hereford, was riding ahead of his companions when he caught sight of the Scottish king. De Bohun lowered his lance and began a charge that carried him to lasting fame.

King Robert the Scot [1] was ahead of his Scottish Army, overseeing the battlefield. He mounted on a small palfrey, armed with only a battle-axe and had no armour on. As de Bohun's great war-horse thundered towards him, King Robert stood his ground, watched with hushed anxiety by his own army.

With the Englishman only metres away his horse shied and threw Robert off balance, allowing de Bohun to hit the Scottish King with his lance. It is said by the author of the Vita Edwardi Secundi (Life of Edward II), that de Bohun's lance penetrated so deep that de Bohun actually hit his hand on the Scottish Kings' chest. [2]

The palfrey under King Robert bolted as the Scot was pinned to the floor by de Bohun's lance. De Bohun quickly dropped off his war-horse, took the Scottish crown and fled the battlefield, chased by 500 Scottish Knights and almost half of the footsoldiers in the Roberts' Army.

It is believed that the remaining soldiers, fled the battlefield after the death of Robert the Bruce. The ones who didn't fell upon the English army led by King Edward II and were promptly surrounded and destroyed. The bloody Scottish crown was presented to King Edward after the battle and in Stirling Castle, Edward was crowned King of Scotland.


[1] - Butterflies from the POD.
[2] - The POD, Robert the Bruce killed de Bohun in OTL.

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What would happen next, would there be more rebellions by the Scots? And who would lead them?
What would the reprecussion be against the Scots from Edward II? What would his next steps?

I may turn this into a TL but then again maybe not, I have another TL I'm researching at the moment but this could be a interesting side project for me.
 
I guess the question is, who survives of the (Scots) nobility and clergy?

Scotland is pretty worn out. On the other hand, Edward - at the moment - is in a poor position to press a campaign.

I'm assuming the battle details make sense for discussion's sake, a Bannockburn defeat for the Scots wouldn't be hard.
 
Well Marjorie Bruce would be around 18 yo by then... Could the scottish nobles rally around her (assuming they escape from Bannockburn's disaster)
Or John Baliol returns to claim the scottish leadership? A dead Robert the Bruce means that John Baliol remains alive...
 
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Well Marjorie Bruce would be around 18 yo by then... Could the scottish nobles rally around her (assuming they escape from Bannockburn's disaster)
Or John Baliol returns to claim the scottish leadership? A dead Robert the Bruce means that John Baliol remains alive...

Why would they rally around her? Why not make the best deal that can be made with Edward II? They have nothing in particular to gain by supporting Marjorie and her husband.

Balilol didn't even have the balls to fight for it when he had supporters, he's in comfortable retirement (it barely deserves being called exile).
 
Why would they rally around her? Why not make the best deal that can be made with Edward II? They have nothing in particular to gain by supporting Marjorie and her husband.

Balilol didn't even have the balls to fight for it when he had supporters, he's in comfortable retirement (it barely deserves being called exile).

Edward propably would have imposed John Baliol as his regent/governor in Scotland so propably the rmaining scottish nobles would either A) accept Edward II (and maybe John Baliol if Edward sets him up as a regent B) Elect a new leader/Protector and continue resisting Edward... C) Try to lure John Baliol to their cause although as you pointed out Elfwine he was pretty much out of the game anyway
Just realised that Marjorie was Edward's II prisoner and in a victorious (for the English) Bannockburn Edward wouldnt have released her...

P.S. Just found a nice pic about Robert Bruce and de Bohun's duel...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs49/i/2009/161/a/4/Bannockburn_Clash_by_Jbzzzzt.jpg
 
Edward propably would have imposed John Baliol as his regent/governor in Scotland so propably the rmaining scottish nobles would either A) accept Edward II (and maybe John Baliol if Edward sets him up as a regent B) Elect a new leader/Protector and continue resisting Edward... C) Try to lure John Baliol to their cause although as you pointed out Elfwine he was pretty much out of the game anyway
Just realised that Marjorie was Edward's II prisoner and in a victorious (for the English) Bannockburn Edward wouldnt have released her...

P.S. Just found a nice pic about Robert Bruce and de Bohun's duel...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs49/i/2009/161/a/4/Bannockburn_Clash_by_Jbzzzzt.jpg

A new leader from where, I wonder. The Canmore-line claimants other than Bruce and Bailol are fairly slim.
 
A new leader from where, I wonder. The Canmore-line claimants other than Bruce and Bailol are fairly slim.

Well the Earl of Dunbar and the Baron of Ross had some decent claims claiming descendance from William the Lion... And there were some others too which i cant remeber by now...
 
Isn't John Balliol dead by this stage? His son Edward is certainly around though and I think of full age. I don't think the Comyns (the Red Comyn's son is probaby alive if the Scots are defeated) are going to be much of a factor immediately because Bruce thoroughly destroyed their power-base in the North -East through 1309 - it will take time for them to re-establish themselves.

Speaking of Edwards, Bruce's brother is still alive and fighting fit at this point in time - although there are massive questions around his judgement. Marjory and the rest of Robert's family are in captivity in England though.
 
A new leader from where, I wonder. The Canmore-line claimants other than Bruce and Bailol are fairly slim.
The last of the Canmores (Margaret of Norway) died in 1290. While Baliol was a weak king, he somehow, somewhere found the balls to tell Longshanks he wasn't supplying a Scottish army to fight the Fench - that's what got him retired...

What the OP hasn't recognised is that the Bruce had what was the best command staff in Europe. This included Sir James Douglas, Sir Thomas Randolph, Sir Robert Keith and Alisadair Og of Islay (the de facto King of Gaeldom). It wasn't until Gustav II Adolf that this command staff was equalled, so I doubt if the Scottish army would have disintegrated as required in the OP.....
 
Isn't John Balliol dead by this stage? His son Edward is certainly around though and I think of full age. I don't think the Comyns (the Red Comyn's son is probaby alive if the Scots are defeated) are going to be much of a factor immediately because Bruce thoroughly destroyed their power-base in the North -East through 1309 - it will take time for them to re-establish themselves.

Speaking of Edwards, Bruce's brother is still alive and fighting fit at this point in time - although there are massive questions around his judgement. Marjory and the rest of Robert's family are in captivity in England though.

Well John I Baliol of Scotland died 5 months after Bannockburn in OTL so in case of a scottish defeat he could return (propably as Edward's II puppet) in Scotland or send his son as his proxy... If Edward Bruce returns too to claim his late brother's inheritance maybe this could mean that the surviving scottish nobles would be split between Baliol (pro-English) and Bruce (pro-independence) and this wouldnt be good for Scotland...
 
The last of the Canmores (Margaret of Norway) died in 1290. While Baliol was a weak king, he somehow, somewhere found the balls to tell Longshanks he wasn't supplying a Scottish army to fight the Fench - that's what got him retired...

What the OP hasn't recognised is that the Bruce had what was the best command staff in Europe. This included Sir James Douglas, Sir Thomas Randolph, Sir Robert Keith and Alisadair Og of Islay (the de facto King of Gaeldom). It wasn't until Gustav II Adolf that this command staff was equalled, so I doubt if the Scottish army would have disintegrated as required in the OP.....
Right, but Bruce and Baliol and so on do trace a claim to the crown back to the Canmores. I'm not sure who is left of the claimants.

As for Baliol:
But when Longshanks came up to say "Y'know, you're my vassal, and I don't appreciate that.", Baliol didn't do very much to fight it.

As for the command staff of the Scottish army: Is that really that elite a team? I'm not arguing it was, but I don't know enough about anyone but Douglas (and barely him) to make even a rudimentary comment on their abilities, so more information would be nice.
 
What the OP hasn't recognised is that the Bruce had what was the best command staff in Europe. This included Sir James Douglas, Sir Thomas Randolph, Sir Robert Keith and Alisadair Og of Islay (the de facto King of Gaeldom). It wasn't until Gustav II Adolf that this command staff was equalled, so I doubt if the Scottish army would have disintegrated as required in the OP.....

Excellant command staff can't really do anything if a horde of angry Scots decide that they want revenge for the death of their king, who was killed right in front of them. All of them saw it and would make a decision: either fight for their now dead King, or run believing if the English could just as easily kill the King then they were certainly dead.

The Scottish force, IIRC, was a 1/4 the size of the English army coming up to relieve Stirling; they could have been easily beaten by the superior English force. I believe that during the first day of battle, when the English retreated through Tor Wood, that the Scots wanted to pursue but only held back by the command of the King. Without King Robert surely the Scots would have lost the battle and perhaps even the war?
 
Excellant command staff can't really do anything if a horde of angry Scots decide that they want revenge for the death of their king, who was killed right in front of them. All of them saw it and would make a decision: either fight for their now dead King, or run believing if the English could just as easily kill the King then they were certainly dead.

The Scottish force, IIRC, was a 1/4 the size of the English army coming up to relieve Stirling; they could have been easily beaten by the superior English force. I believe that during the first day of battle, when the English retreated through Tor Wood, that the Scots wanted to pursue but only held back by the command of the King. Without King Robert surely the Scots would have lost the battle and perhaps even the war?

Depends. If Edward fights Bannockburn as badly as OTL, the Scots nobles (Douglas etc., that is) might be able to get ahold of things and beat back his wretched assaults...but I don't know exactly how things work out.

Oh! What about Edward Bruce, Robert's brother?

He's next in line to the throne, isn't he? That can't be good. :eek:

At least it answers who takes over after Robert, but...
 
Depends. If Edward fights Bannockburn as badly as OTL, the Scots nobles (Douglas etc., that is) might be able to get ahold of things and beat back his wretched assaults...but I don't know exactly how things work out.

Oh! What about Edward Bruce, Robert's brother?

He's next in line to the throne, isn't he? That can't be good. :eek:

At least it answers who takes over after Robert, but...

I'd argue that though there has been a big blow to the Scottish Morale, morale in the English Camp will still not bre great... and if de Bouhn gets killed by the Scots after killing Bruce his uncle will still act rashly... the Scots Lords know what is at stake and so will keep to the plan as otherwise they would be routed...

As for who would be King, it would be Edward Bruce of course... however this gives the remaning Comyns a good try later on to over throw him, as he will probably act very rashly like he did in OTL... that is if the Scots nobles do recognise him as King.
 
If Edward is recognised as King by the Scottish nobles couldnt Edward II throw in the game John Baliol or his son Edward and cause mayhem to the Scots? Baliols had an equal claim to the Bruces if not higher...
 
If Edward is recognised as King by the Scottish nobles couldnt Edward II throw in the game John Baliol or his son Edward and cause mayhem to the Scots? Baliols had an equal claim to the Bruces if not higher...

Edward Balliol did come to Scotland in the 30's but was so useless he lost the support of the nobles that he end up fleeing the country. And to be honest all the Edwards trying the Balliol tatic, though if Balliol had really wanted to come back to Scotland he would have come in about 1301-1303 before the Comyns realised he was useless and so gave their alliengence to Edward I. Thus while the Balliols are an interesting factor of the Scottish Wars of Independence, once they are in France they basically do nothing untill 1330-ish.

Saying that, if Edward Bruce is awful at being King, we will see a return of the Guardianship with the Bishops and the High Stuart taking control.
 
Saying that, if Edward Bruce is awful at being King, we will see a return of the Guardianship with the Bishops and the High Stuart taking control.

Well they were some other claimants too... Like i said above there was the Earl of Dunbar, the Baron of Ross and others... The nobles could elect a new King among the rest of the candidates (excluding the Bruces and the Baliols)
 
Alternatively Edward could be pressured to marry and produce an heir - and there are others with claims to the throne through the Bruce line, albeit through female descent.
 
Alternatively Edward could be pressured to marry and produce an heir - and there are others with claims to the throne through the Bruce line, albeit through female descent.

Of course, that is the nobles agree to continue with the line of Bruce... as I've said early I personally would see a case, if they win at Bannockburn, where Edward is made King but it is like the last months of John Balliol's rule, i.e. the Guardianship is brought back to oversee the Kingdom and to keep the unity of the Kingdom...

If they lose Bannockburn, and it would be less of a lose and more of a withdraw, I would imagine you would see a lot of infighting in the Scottish Camp though who would ultimately come up top I'm not so sure.
 
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