[DC Comics WI] - A Different Trinity

So, here's a proposition. Batman and Superman are never DC characters. Instead, they and their collective catalogues / families / rogues galleries are with a separate publisher (take your pick of All American, Entertaining Comics, National Periodical or a very early Vertigo), with all the related Golden Age and Silver Age writers. Meanwhile, this ATL DC Comics pushes and promotes the likes of Green Lantern, The Flash and Wonder Woman as their premier characters.

What are the repercussions?

Well, the big one I can spot immediately is that without Batman and Superman's mega-selling numbers, DC might never actually kick off the Silver Age and reinvent their other characters. The drive back towards superheroes was partially in response to the Comic Code yes, but without the basis of having two of the best selling franchises they might try to diversify their product.

Next, if they do actually kick off the Silver Age, then there's the immediate issue of Atlas / Marvel / Timely. DC executives took Marvel lightly for years because they were still outselling them, but people inside the company who were keen-eyed knew that was because characters like Batman and Superman were killing it at a time and were actually subsidizing a lot of badly selling titles. Without those characters or supporting elements like the Legion, DC is actually going to have to be more cognizant of the threat Marvel poses much earlier, though given their OTL planning, that might not amount too much.

In discussing the Golden Age, we can't forget the likes of Earth-1 and Earth-2. While Earth-2 promoted and protected all of DC's Golden age iterations, without Batman and Superman around Earth-2 might actually diverge much more than it does IRL, with the likes of Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and other Golden Age characters actually getting sustained presences without GA Batman and Superman hogging the picture time. Or maybe this Silver Age just reboots all their characters, so we don't have Hal Jordans and Barry Allens at all, just their reboot versions.

If we try and peek way forward in time, Superman and Batman's film success in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s is definitely gonna provoke DC to try and compete earlier. Maybe they try and launch a Wonder Woman film in the 1990s, maybe that Flash tv show gets more than one season? Animation is sure to be a lot different as well, with Batman / Superman shows competing against Super Friends (or whatever DC calls their lineup).

And of course, there's gonna be a lot of continuity changes. No Robins in the Titans, for example. The Justice League needs two founding members (Black Canary and Green Arrow?). Captain Marvel won't be a DC property. Martian Manhunter's look and backstory might change to avoid that same fate. And so on and so forth...

Any ideas, guys?
 
Well, the question I see here is, if Supes and Bats never make it to National, could it be possible for two other well known heroes of that era heroes, like maybe Captain America and the Black Terror, to take their place?
 
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Well, the question I see here is, if Supes and Bats never make it to National, could it be possible for two other well known heroes of that era heroes, like maybe Captain America and the Black Terror, to take their place?
Well... that's not the question at all and I'm not sure how you got there. I'm asking about a Trinity of existing DC characters, not moving in Fox / Timely characters over.
 
Well... that's not the question at all and I'm not sure how you got there. I'm asking about a Trinity of existing DC characters, not moving in Fox / Timely characters over.

I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The trouble is that National Periodicals, without Batman and Superman, the company doesn't have that much star power. Most of Dc's flagships came from the other half. All-American Comics. Would National publications even have a superhero lineup without the World's Finest? Let's suggest they create one anyway. In my opinion, It would be Zatara who would take the place of Superman, as they both debuted around that time and the former is powerful enough to have that kind of star power without the MOS around. As for Batman, there are three choices for that. Slam Brady, the two-fisted detective, The Sandman who could easily take the place of Batman, being a night based Vigilante or the Crimson Avenger, like Sandman, gas guns and all, but with a larger air of mystery as, back then, he didn't have a secret identity.

Then there's the issue of the merger. Would All-American still merge with National without the benefit of Two big names like Superman and Batman, or would National have to go to another company for a deal? Either way, a merger is the only way to ensure their long-term survival.
 
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I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No worries.

The trouble is that National Periodicals, without Batman and Superman, the company doesn't have that much star power. Most of Dc's flagships came from the other half in All-American Comics. Would National publications even have a superhero lineup without the World's Finest? Let's suggest they create one anyway. In my opinion, It would be Zatara who would take the place of Superman, as they both debuted around that time and the former is powerful enough to have that kind of star power without the MOS around. As for Batman, there are three choices for that. Slam Brady, the two-fisted detective, The Sandman who could easily take the place of Batman, being a night based Vigilante or the Crimson Avenger, like Sandman, gas guns and all, but with a larger air of mystery as, back then, he didn't have a secret identity.

I don't know about lack of starpower, but thematically they had replacements at the ready. Aquaman was around, as was Doctor Fate. Other characters around included Hourman, Robotman, Sandman and Starman. If you're going to try to set up a National's Finest duo to complement an All-American Trinity, then I suppose Aquaman or Doctor Fate could step in for Superman as otherworldly characters. Green Arrow could step in a pinch for Batman unless he's kicked for being a Batman ripoff, but if he's out you've got Crimson Avenger, Sandman and Vigilante all covering the same ground game. Vigilante is too western, but maybe a merger of Crimson and Sandman could carry the game forward. Doctor Fate and Sandman already tie together in OTL comics, so there's some chemistry there to explore.

That said, a lack of starpower on the National Periodical side could be key to All-American subsuming National Periodical instead of the other way around. We'd have All-American Comics and All-Star Comics replacing Action Comics and Detective Comics in this situation. So I suppose that's the first butterfly to look out, that AAC eats NPP and goes from there.
 
No worries.



I don't know about lack of starpower, but thematically they had replacements at the ready. Aquaman was around, as was Doctor Fate. Other characters around included Hourman, Robotman, Sandman and Starman. If you're going to try to set up a National's Finest duo to complement an All-American Trinity, then I suppose Aquaman or Doctor Fate could step in for Superman as otherworldly characters. Green Arrow could step in a pinch for Batman unless he's kicked for being a Batman ripoff, but if he's out you've got Crimson Avenger, Sandman and Vigilante all covering the same ground game. Vigilante is too western, but maybe a merger of Crimson and Sandman could carry the game forward. Doctor Fate and Sandman already tie together in OTL comics, so there's some chemistry there to explore.

That said, a lack of starpower on the National Periodical side could be key to All-American subsuming National Periodical instead of the other way around. We'd have All-American Comics and All-Star Comics replacing Action Comics and Detective Comics in this situation. So I suppose that's the first butterfly to look out, that AAC eats NPP and goes from there.

On the subject of the merger, there are still questions to be asked. Would All-American still merge with National without the benefit of Two big names like Superman and Batman, or would National have to go to another company for a deal? Either way, a merger is the only way to ensure their long-term survival. Maybe Timely or Quality Comics might be interested in such a case?

The reason I suggested Zatara and those other three as replacements is because they were around when Superman and Batman were also starting out as characters. I.E. 1938 to 39. Unless DC uses what they have at their disposal already, they'd have to wait till 41, three years after Supes' debut in order to get a trinity going, and by then they may very well be bought out.
 
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On the subject of the merger, there are still questions to be asked. Would All-American still merge with National without the benefit of Two big names like Superman and Batman, or would National have to go to another company for a deal? Either way, a merger is the only way to ensure their long-term survival.
Given the shared ownership, I think it's likely a merger will happen. NPP not having a lot of characters to start besides Batman and Superman means that it'll be more likely to happen at All American's end. Maxwell Gaines was trending towards humor comics into the 1940s with Entertaining Comics, but that was after getting forced out of AAC. Don't forget that Detective Comics also got merged into the deal.

The reason I suggested Zatara and those other three as replacements is because they were around when Superman and Batman were also starting out as characters. I.E. 1938 to 39. Unless DC uses what they have at their disposal already, they'd have to wait till 41, three years after Supes' debut in order to get a trinity going, and by then they may very well be bought out.

Nah, the Golden Age was a very profitable time for mid-level publishers like National, especially since National was better run behind the scenes than many and had its own newstand agency (INC) to distribute through. So they wouldn't be bought out by then and by the time they had things going a merger later than OTL would keep the strongest parts of both companies together while also keeping it on a leash for the benefit of the INC. I don't think Leibowitz would be the one to take over given his own companies would be weaker than Gaines, but the guy was a very sharp businessman so maybe he does stay the course as OTL.

As for the timeline, in this scenario, National's Finest starts in 1940 with Sandman and Spectre (tentatively), while All-American's Trinity comes around in 1941 with Green Lantern, Flash and Wonder Woman. World's Finest began in 1941 in OTL, so that feels like solid ground for everyone involved.

Edit: It's actually worth noting that most of the pre-DC mergers happened by 1939, preceding even Batman's creation. So the mergers are definitely set to happen unless we determine Superman's creation as having that big of an impact of Liebowtiz's finances.
 
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Given the shared ownership, I think it's likely a merger will happen. NPP not having a lot of characters to start besides Batman and Superman means that it'll be more likely to happen at All American's end. Maxwell Gaines was trending towards humor comics into the 1940s with Entertaining Comics, but that was after getting forced out of AAC. Don't forget that Detective Comics also got merged into the deal.



Nah, the Golden Age was a very profitable time for mid-level publishers like National, especially since National was better run behind the scenes than many and had its own newstand agency (INC) to distribute through. So they wouldn't be bought out by then and by the time they had things going a merger later than OTL would keep the strongest parts of both companies together while also keeping it on a leash for the benefit of the INC. I don't think Leibowitz would be the one to take over given his own companies would be weaker than Gaines, but the guy was a very sharp businessman so maybe he does stay the course as OTL.

As for the timeline, in this scenario, National's Finest starts in 1939/1940 with Doctor Fate and Sandman (tentatively), while All-American's Trinity comes around in 1941 with Green Lantern, Flash and Wonder Woman. World's Finest began in 1941 in OTL, so that feels like solid ground for everyone involved.

Edit: It's actually worth noting that most of the pre-DC mergers happened by 1939, preceding even Batman's creation. So the mergers are definitely set to happen unless we determine Superman's creation as having that big of an impact of Liebowtiz's finances.


One of the things I'd like to know is, where DO Superman and Batman go after this? Would they go to separate companies or would their creators somehow end up sending their creations to the same company? And on that note, which company would have them? Timely, perhaps? Maybe Standard or Quality? I can't see Fawcett taking them, seeing as they have Captain Marvel and all. Nor can I see MLJ having them on board since they have The Sheild and Hangman already.
 
One of the things I'd like to know is, where DO Superman and Batman go after this? Would they go to separate companies or would their creators somehow end up sending their creations to the same company? And on that note, which company would have them? Timely, perhaps? Maybe Standard or Quality? I can't see Fawcett taking them, seeing as they have Captain Marvel and all. Nor can I see MLJ having them on board since they have The Sheild and Hangman already.

Well the idea is that they landed in their own company separate from any OTL ones to avoid butterflying those ones too much. We'll say that an ATL pulp magazine publisher called Kingdom Magazines that was a subsidiary of American News Company was publishing them, and bought themselves out when the company shut down in 1952.

That way we have a reason for their strong success, them spinning off following the Golden Age and their staying separate from DC and INC.
 
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