DBWI: Zhukov does not overthrow Stalin in 1939

Before sunrise on August 1, 1939, a military coup led by General Georgi Zhukov removed Joseph Stalin from power in the Soviet Union. On Zhukov's orders, Stalin was summarily executed and the entire cabinet was replaced by Red Army officers loyal to Zhukov. The USSR went from a Communist state to a military dictatorship.

With Zhukov in power, the purges begun by Stalin ended. Those military officers fortunate to be allowed to live were restored to their last military rank. By the end of 1939, the Red Army increased by 30 percent.

When Hitler ordered the Heer and Luftwaffe to cross the border into Ukraine, the Red Army was ready. After losing 90 percent of its troops, the Wehrmacht was forced to cross back into Poland. It was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich.

Suppose Stalin was able to prevent the coup from happening.

Would the Russians still have been able to kick the Germans out of Poland by the summer of 1941?

Would the Russians still have been able to Sakhalin and the Kuril islands from the Japanese?

Would Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang have won the Chinese Civil War had Stalin remained in power?

What roles would Lazar Kaganovich and Lavrenti Beria have played if Stalin survived the coup (IOTL, Beria was executed by a firing squad a week after the removal of Stalin. Kaganovich was sentenced to hard labor in Siberia and died in 1943)?

And would the road to democratization in Russia be delayed if Stalin stayed in power? IOTL, Zhukov allowed popular elections to the Duma in 1950 (the majority of seats were not elected and were held by military officers appointed by Zhukov). By 1963, all seats in the Duma were held by elected politicians with the United Patriotic Party heading a coalition government.
 
It might have taken a little longer but the Russians would still have beaten the Germans into the ground. Sheer weight of numbers and industrial capacity made it a foregone conclusion, and of course the physical size of Russia gave them plenty of room for tactical retreats and manoeuvres, even with a weakened Army.
 

sharlin

Banned
I think after the ease of their conquest of France, scandinavia and the low countries and the apparent containment of the British the Germans must have been terrified when they encountered the soviet tanks. T-34s, KV1s, KV-13s and those HUGE ass KV-3s, they still suffered heavy casualties, the Germans fought well as they always did and even with the casualties as high as they were they stopped the Soviets dead in Poland through mutual exhaustion before both sides rallied for further attacks.

What I've read of Stalin paints him out to pritty much be a thug, can't see him lasting much longer after the purges began, he was a brutal man to say the least. Good riddance!
 
Well, the whole result of the Pacific War would be different I expect. Without Sorge's having been exposed and executed by the Kempeitai, who knows what mischief he might have caused. I doubt he could influance Prince Konoe's patching things up with the US, but if he had been active longer, November Wind may have been even worse. The Russians may have gotten Hokkiado and Korea as well as Manchuria and the Northern Islands...
 

sharlin

Banned
By November Wind do you mean the offensive against Japan which the Soviets promised to do? At least they didn't stay that long, what 15 years? Japan's a unified country now and one of the most wealthy.
 
November Wind, the opening of thed Manchurian Offensive . Maybe you're thinking of November Rain. Thank goodness MacArthur's threat to meet Vasilevsky's gas with the atomics he'd just used at Chosen worked!

As for Japan's being "unified", I think Mr. Choi who runs the grocers here still calls it an occupation.
 

sharlin

Banned
Sorry I get my soviet offensives mixed up. And yeah...Doug and his nukes, thank god that both sides stepped back from that confrontation.
 
The Soviets would have won but it would have been a long bloody struggle.
Communism would have survived and they would have been successful in spreading across the third world.
 
I'm just always amazed Zhukov was able to pull it off as well as he did. Stalin was infamously paranoid.

And the 'summary execution' was an obvious cover for what Zhukov actually did, which was to go into Stalin's office and shoot the bastard in the face while his troops stormed the rest of the Kremlin.

From many accounts the plan was put together and implemented in a WEEK... that was what saved Zhukov, the NKVD / KGB didn't know about it until Stalin and the rest of his bloodthirsty band were already dead or on a one way trip to Siberia to die in the frozen wastes.

The 'funny/ironic' thing about Zhukov was that his subsequent purge of the USSR's 'civilian' government was almost as bloody as Stalin's military purges had been up to that time (although overall he wasn't nearly as bloodthirsty when it came to 'liquidating' entire classes of people.)
 

sharlin

Banned
Well looking at the USSR now its more psudo democratic communism if that makes any sense, elected officals in free elections, people are allowed to own buisnesses and the like. Its not what Stalin wanted.
 
Sorry I get my soviet offensives mixed up. And yeah...Doug and his nukes, thank god that both sides stepped back from that confrontation.

No worries. The Pacific War was rife with operational names based on weather - seems like everything was whatever storm, wind, rain, typhoon, etc.

My Grandpa Harry got his dose in the 2nd Chosen offensive, and his nickname for old Bug Out Doug, but it's not for use in polite company. (My Nana's name for him after Granpa Harry died of the cancer while they were stationed in Chongjin actually made my Uncle Bob blush, and he was a DI at Mt. Fuji.)

OOC: the family stuff's not far from OTL. My Grandpa Harry was stationed in Korea after WWII, died of cancer (not related), and hated MacArthur. My Nana did indeed call Doug by foul names. It was my other uncle who was in the corps though. He wasn't a DI, but he did however train locals - to play the tuba.
 
Here's a thought - would this have any effect on Trotsky's activities in Latin America? Would Stalin be more or less likely to help those Cuban brothers Leon got himself involved with in Mexico? How about Ceasar Chavez (the "organizer" executed in the Valley Plot)?
 
It might have taken a little longer but the Russians would still have beaten the Germans into the ground. Sheer weight of numbers and industrial capacity made it a foregone conclusion, and of course the physical size of Russia gave them plenty of room for tactical retreats and manoeuvres, even with a weakened Army.

Well, not necessarily *that* foregone. I mean it's a possibility that the combination of the Purges and a Soviet disaster in a foreign war might lead Hitler to get an invasion as soon as possible. A Russian regime surviving a general European war is not a guarantee, look at what happened to Tsar Nicholas II and his family, and then to Kerensky.
 
OOC: Completely ASB, Zhukov was still a fairly junior officer in early 1939 with no real influence beyond his circle of friends and contacts. Even after his victory at Khalkin Gol he remained a secondary figure to Timoshenko for another year.
 
OOC: Why would Zhukov want to over throw the party? He wasn't some un-ideological opportunist. He was very much a true believer of Marxism-Leninism, and resiliently so. He remained loyal to Stalin and anti-revisionism even though Stalin sidelined him.
 
Top