DBWI: Young Turks' Revolt Succeeded?

Tsao

Banned
I was reading up on the Ottoman Empire the other day, and I came across an interesting bit of trivia. In 1908, some Turkish officers revolted against the Sultan Abdul Hamid. Some units even marched on Constantinople!:eek:

Needless to say, the revolt was crushed swiftly by loyal troops, but what if it had succeeded? IIRC, many within the Empire wanted reforms, and though the sultan eventually balked, what if the Young Turks (as they called themselves) succeeded? Would reform come quicker, or would a military dictatorship arise like the one we saw in Germany after the abdication of Wilhelm II? Thoughts?
 
I was reading up on the Ottoman Empire the other day, and I came across an interesting bit of trivia. In 1908, some Turkish officers revolted against the Sultan Abdul Hamid. Some units even marched on Constantinople!:eek:

Needless to say, the revolt was crushed swiftly by loyal troops, but what if it had succeeded? IIRC, many within the Empire wanted reforms, and though the sultan eventually balked, what if the Young Turks (as they called themselves) succeeded? Would reform come quicker, or would a military dictatorship arise like the one we saw in Germany after the abdication of Wilhelm II? Thoughts?

Well, any reforms would have led to a destabilization of the Empire, which would have led to a rapid collapse. In our TL, they managed to hold on until the Russo-Turkish War of 1933, when the whole rotten structure fell apart.

That being said, an early example of reform might have led to a different course for the Arab World to take other than Islamic Socialism. The world would probably be a better place if the leaders of the Muslim world had been able to see some sort of reform work, and done something along its lines, rather than wait for OTL's unholy combination of religious fundamentalism and totalitarian socialism to overthrow the elites and establish a new Caliphate.
 

Tsao

Banned
That being said, an early example of reform might have led to a different course for the Arab World to take other than Islamic Socialism. The world would probably be a better place if the leaders of the Muslim world had been able to see some sort of reform work, and done something along its lines, rather than wait for OTL's unholy combination of religious fundamentalism and totalitarian socialism to overthrow the elites and establish a new Caliphate.

Ah yes, the Russo-Turkish War.... what a bloody mess. But how might this have effected Austria-Hungary? If they saw Turkey weakened, would they make a grab for Bosnia or another Balkan territory? Or would they still take Lybia as they did IOTL? I still see Albania falling under Italian influence, but Bulgaria and Serbia might swing more towards Germany than Russia....
 
Ah yes, the Russo-Turkish War.... what a bloody mess. But how might this have effected Austria-Hungary? If they saw Turkey weakened, would they make a grab for Bosnia or another Balkan territory?

Possibly, I don't see why not. The Austo-Hungarian leadership was just as imperialistically suicidal as the Ottomans. For some reason, multi-ethnic empires in an age of raging nationalism don't seem to work out so well.

If they had, it would have sped up the inevitable conflict between the Austo-Hungarian Empire and Serbia, except this time it would be over Bosnia instead of Croatia. Dragutin Dimitrijević was a mad bastard, and he would have started a war with Austria over the "Serbian right to unify the South Slavs" no matter what. If the war was over Bosnia though, I doubt the Germans would have gotten involved, it wouldn't have been an existential threat to the survival of the Austo-Hungarian Empire like the Croatian War was.

My main wonder is, how would the other Balkan states react? Bulgaria experienced something close to a genocide after they revolted in 1917 against the Ottomans, would they have managed to get free from a destabilized empire? I've been to some of the old towns in Bulgaria Province in the Balkan Federation, its damn eerie.
 
Last edited:

Tsao

Banned
My main wonder is, how would the other Balkan states react? Bulgaria experienced something close to a genocide after they revolted in 1917 against the Ottomans, would they have managed to get free from a destabilized empire? I've been to some of the old towns in Bulgaria Province in the Balkan Federation, its damn eerie.

If the Empire destabilized, I could easily see the Balkan states declaring independence. This may actually have a better outcome than OTL, what with the whole clusterfuck political situation in Greece and Makedonia going Red......

Also, would Russia react the same way it did after the 1934 revolution? Would Tsar Nicholas risk intervention like Alexander did twenty years later?
 
If the Empire destabilized, I could easily see the Balkan states declaring independence. This may actually have a better outcome than OTL, what with the whole clusterfuck political situation in Greece and Makedonia going Red......

Also, would Russia react the same way it did after the 1934 revolution? Would Tsar Nicholas risk intervention like Alexander did twenty years later?

Which '34 Revolution? Serbian or Turkish? :p

But no, there's no way the Russians are going to be intervening in the Balkans or Turkey in any serious way before their alliance with Germany took pressure off their western flank. Even if Austria-Hungary was effectively eliminated from the war through fighting Serbia, 1916 Germany would eat Russia for breakfast and complain about being hungry by 11 o'clock.

On the Balkan note, I can see anything being better than OTL. Bulgaria will never be the same again, look at the effort they had to go through to revive a real Bulgarian language, they were down to only around 20 000 native speakers. Serbia might have been worse off in the long run, what with keeping their monarchy, but you never know. And avoiding the horrors of the Greek and Macedonian Red Terrors would help anyone. My uncle is an archeologist, he still gets upset about the Parthenon.
 

Tsao

Banned
Which '34 Revolution? Serbian or Turkish? :p

The Turkish one, of course.


Although Tsar Al was a sneaky S.O.B., I'm not sure he provided the Serbs with supplies. I mean, even the Russian weapons found on the dead revolutionaries seem to be stolen and worn.

On the Parthenon, yeah it was a shame, but at least they didn't bring the damn thing down, like they did at Delphi. 'Detrimental to revolutionary spirit' my ass. Like a few old temples really stand in the way of revolution.
 
The Turkish one, of course.


Although Tsar Al was a sneaky S.O.B., I'm not sure he provided the Serbs with supplies. I mean, even the Russian weapons found on the dead revolutionaries seem to be stolen and worn.

I'm not sure. Remember the Russians had just crushed the Poles in the Warsaw Commune, and had plenty of worn-out weapons to sell to both sides in Serbia. The Turkish intervention was, in the long run, a great thing. Armenia and Trebizond were much happier under a distant and culturally more similar Russian Empire as opposed to the Turks. It's too bad their protectorates over Syria and Anatolia couldn't last...

On the Parthenon, yeah it was a shame, but at least they didn't bring the damn thing down, like they did at Delphi. 'Detrimental to revolutionary spirit' my ass. Like a few old temples really stand in the way of revolution.

I know. It seemed to happen all over the Near and Middle East. I cried the day the Western Wall came down...
 
OOC: What the flying cock...?

OOC: Not that crazy, if they could use their Croatian ports, they could have sent a small army to support a local rebellion. Also, no specification as to WHEN this is, so it could be a little bit later than 1914.
 
Last edited:
Top