DBWI-Yamato class Battleship built

Won't really do much beyond giving the US larger, slower targets. At least the Ezo-class provided a somewhat better anti-air screen. But beyond that, the Japanese were really going to waste more resources on the Yamato-class.

On a semi-related note, we'll be missing our Ainu-themed Kancolle for more BB Mikos. :D
 
Not much difference actually, at least the way things worked out.

The existence of them might have given the "gun club" fools in the Department of the Navy the traction needed to build the Montana Class superbattleship. or even, God forbid, convince someone that the happily cancelled Alaska class battle cruiser was a good idea (the Gun Club folks were sort of stuck in 1930).

On the bright side it might also have gotten the rest of the Iowa class built, assuming the Japanese can keep it/them from getting sunk like two of the Ezo's were during the December 14, 1942 night surface/day air engagements off Guadalcanal (aka: the Death Ride of the IJN).

I wouldn't call it a death ride. The Japanese may have lost four out of their 13 battleships and one carrier, but they were still capable of putting up a fight. The Battle of the Southern Philippines in August 1944 was the real end of the IJN as a fighting force.

And the Ezo and Kinai may fared better if they hadn't been damaged in the running gun battle with the American BBs.

Now if the Allies (mainly the Americans) had decided to invade Japan instead of the blockade/firebomb campaign, it is possible that the construction of all those extra battleships by the U.S. might have led to a shortfall of landing craft. Instead of the war ending in January 1946, after the Revolt of the Mothers toppled the Empire's military dictatorship, lack of landing craft might have forced the Allies to actually invade.

I've seen some people claim that the U.S. would have nuked the Japanese before invading, but that seems so unlikely that I have a hard time imagining it.

Why not? It would have shattered their morale earlier. Also, with the example set by nuking a city, the Americans and Russo-Chinese might not have been so willing to toss tactical nukes like snowballs during the Korean War. Even to this day, some parts of northern Korea remain unlivable.

On a semi-related note, we'll be missing our Ainu-themed Kancolle for more BB Mikos. :D

Ah yes, I hear the inclusion of the Ezo sisters has made the game very popular in the Ainu Autonomous State. OTOH, the introduction of the Yorktown-class as playable ship-girls raised the hackles of some of the game's more jingoistic fans. One pissed off fan decided to express his displeasure by travelling to Hawaii and vandalizing the USS Enterprise museum.:rolleyes::mad:

OOC: Nice to see a fellow Kancolle fan.
 

CalBear

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I wouldn't call it a death ride. The Japanese may have lost four out of their 13 battleships and one carrier, but they were still capable of putting up a fight. The Battle of the Southern Philippines in August 1944 was the real end of the IJN as a fighting force.

And the Ezo and Kinai may fared better if they hadn't been damaged in the running gun battle with the American BBs.



Why not? It would have shattered their morale earlier. Also, with the example set by nuking a city, the Americans and Russo-Chinese might not have been so willing to toss tactical nukes like snowballs during the Korean War. Even to this day, some parts of northern Korea remain unlivable.



...

While the Southern Philippines was absolutely the series of engagements where the number of IJN ships was whittled down, the "Death Ride" was what destroyed the IJN as a serious combat force. The loss of Nagato, Ezo, Kinia, Haruna along with the virtual destruction of Kongo (which never left Truk after limping there post battle), the sinking of Zuikaku, all of which were sunk by aircraft in the Battle of Finuana Island coupled with the loss of her sister Shokaku from a gasoline vapor explosion brought on by a single torpedo hit by USS Growler while en route to the battle dealt the IJN a body blow from which they never recovered. Combined with the loss of four heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, and three destroyers during the night surface engagement, in exchange for two USN light cruisers and a destroyer (and, admittedly, the crippling of USS South Dakota, which was out of action for over a year) and the destruction of close to 200 IJN land based aircraft the December 14 action was a massacre.

Beyond the material losses, the loss of personnel was also crippling. Even if one discounts the loss of aircrew and critical aviation mechanics, something the IJN was never able to overcome, the loss of combat leadership, especially the visionary Admiral Yamamoto, along with much of his staff, when Nagato suffered its spectacular magazine explosion is difficult to overstate, as is the death of the hugely experienced, if somewhat tarnished in reputation, Chuichi Nagumo, commander of the Kido Butai, effectively eviscerated the IJN combat leadership at a critical juncture.

By comparison the Southern Philippines engagement were more a matter of a massively powerful USN clearing up the tatters of the IJN.
 
While the Southern Philippines was absolutely the series of engagements where the number of IJN ships was whittled down, the "Death Ride" was what destroyed the IJN as a serious combat force. The loss of Nagato, Ezo, Kinia, Haruna along with the virtual destruction of Kongo (which never left Truk after limping there post battle), the sinking of Zuikaku, all of which were sunk by aircraft in the Battle of Finuana Island coupled with the loss of her sister Shokaku from a gasoline vapor explosion brought on by a single torpedo hit by USS Growler while en route to the battle dealt the IJN a body blow from which they never recovered. Combined with the loss of four heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, and three destroyers during the night surface engagement, in exchange for two USN light cruisers and a destroyer (and, admittedly, the crippling of USS South Dakota, which was out of action for over a year) and the destruction of close to 200 IJN land based aircraft the December 14 action was a massacre.

Indeed, the hasty conversion of the Tone-class heavy cruisers into the Ōtaka-class light carriers and the hastened introduction of the Unryuu class shows how desperate Japan was to rebuild its carrier fleet.

Beyond the material losses, the loss of personnel was also crippling. Even if one discounts the loss of aircrew and critical aviation mechanics, something the IJN was never able to overcome, the loss of combat leadership, especially the visionary Admiral Yamamoto, along with much of his staff, when Nagato suffered its spectacular magazine explosion is difficult to overstate

You can thank the IJN's legendarily bad damage control for that. All it took was a fire from a single bomb hit spreading to the propellent storage.
 
I love how this entire thread has derailed to "OOC" about Japan against the US:D

I like how the axis fanboys...

Yeah, because saying anything good of the "evil three" makes you an immediate axis fanboy. Please stop:) Silly ad-hominems like these really do nothing to further the discussion.
 

CalBear

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I love how this entire thread has derailed to "OOC" about Japan against the US:D



Yeah, because saying anything good of the "evil three" makes you an immediate axis fanboy. Please stop:) Silly ad-hominems like these really do nothing to further the discussion.

Ya, DBWI tend to do that. They are like a cooperative T/L but without any need to cooperate.;)

All it takes is one poster to go a different way and "derail city". Most don't make it to page 4.
 
Ya, DBWI tend to do that. They are like a cooperative T/L but without any need to cooperate.;)

All it takes is one poster to go a different way and "derail city". Most don't make it to page 4.

Huh, ok. I haven't really participated in any DBWI's, so thanks for the info.
 
Ah yes, I hear the inclusion of the Ezo sisters has made the game very popular in the Ainu Autonomous State. OTOH, the introduction of the Yorktown-class as playable ship-girls raised the hackles of some of the game's more jingoistic fans. One pissed off fan decided to express his displeasure by travelling to Hawaii and vandalizing the USS Enterprise museum.:rolleyes::mad:

OOC: Nice to see a fellow Kancolle fan.

Lost causers are common everything. Nothing to fret about.

OOC: Bizarre how OTL's game would add even the Regia Marina to the roster over any Allied Navy (Littorio and Hibiki don't exactly count, even if they swapped sides before and after the war). Not that I mind that much. Yuu is best sub.

Ya, DBWI tend to do that. They are like a cooperative T/L but without any need to cooperate.;)

All it takes is one poster to go a different way and "derail city". Most don't make it to page 4.

OOC: Well, my first time doing a DBWI too, so kind of nervous about overriding the ATL.
 
I love how this entire thread has derailed to "OOC" about Japan against the US:D



Yeah, because saying anything good of the "evil three" makes you an immediate axis fanboy. Please stop:) Silly ad-hominems like these really do nothing to further the discussion.

OOC: Well, when you continue to insist the Japanese could win despite all evidence to the contrary, it does look like mindless fanboyism.
 
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OOC: Well, when you continue to insist the Japanese could win despite all evidence to the contrary, it does look like mindless fanboyism.

Whom, I? I have never said that Japan could have won a protracted war with the United States. Ever. If you are referring to the other poster, just remember that history is based on different interpretations and perspectives. Just because what he has come across is different from what you have (and clashes with your obvious opinion), it does not mean that he is a Weeaboo who dreams of the day when Japan can finally subdue Asia.
 
Yeah, because saying anything good of the "evil three" makes you an immediate axis fanboy. Please stop:) Silly ad-hominems like these really do nothing to further the discussion.
Saying that the Japanese could win not one, but two Midways, and secure a victorious stalemate against the USA in what was stated by the poster to be a prolonged war when Japan only has 1/10 of the US industrial strength, is about the textbook definition of "axis fanboyism". I stand by my comment in that regards.
 
Saying that the Japanese could win not one, but two Midways, and secure a victorious stalemate against the USA in what was stated by the poster to be a prolonged war when Japan only has 1/10 of the US industrial strength, is about the textbook definition of "axis fanboyism". I stand by my comment in that regards.

And, so what? It's a narrative, and a refreshing one at that. Giving a narrative with an extremely low (near ASB) probability of occurring does not mean that he is an "axis fanboy". It is just as ridiculous as him calling you an "allied fanboy" for launching ad-hominems and saying that there was no chance in hell for Japan to win.
 
And, so what? It's a narrative, and a refreshing one at that. Giving a narrative with an extremely low (near ASB) probability of occurring does not mean that he is an "axis fanboy". It is just as ridiculous as him calling you an "allied fanboy" for launching ad-hominems and saying that there was no chance in hell for Japan to win.

If I said that the US would instantly stomp Japan within several months after them entering the war and Japan would surrender in the first half of 1941, then I'd be an Allied fanboy, because that is the equivalent of saying that Japan could beat the US in a sustained war. Japan surviving a sustained war with the US in such regards is impossible, because they're fighting a state with an industrial capacity more than ten times their own, a nation with a population much greater than their own and which truly beating is essentially impossible (China), the British and their allies, and have extremely vulnerable lines of supplies to the resources they need. It isn't near alien space bats, it actively is, and can't be presented as a viable proposal. Thus why I termed it "axis fanboyism", because only that could produce such results.
 
Whom, I? I have never said that Japan could have won a protracted war with the United States. Ever. If you are referring to the other poster, just remember that history is based on different interpretations and perspectives. Just because what he has come across is different from what you have (and clashes with your obvious opinion), it does not mean that he is a Weeaboo who dreams of the day when Japan can finally subdue Asia.

True. Though his ignorance about Japans predicament can't be purely academic.:D Oh a lot of expensive words, i love it.
 
And, so what? It's a narrative, and a refreshing one at that. Giving a narrative with an extremely low (near ASB) probability of occurring does not mean that he is an "axis fanboy". It is just as ridiculous as him calling you an "allied fanboy" for launching ad-hominems and saying that there was no chance in hell for Japan to win.

OOC: Refreshing my ass. A super-IJN that manages to grind the USN down while suffering no losses of their own is BS. After all, the OTL USN only came out on top after losing all but three of its carriers within a year of entering the war.

IC: You know, I once read an ATL on another site called "The Mighty One" where Japan actually does build the Yamato-class. Of course it quickly descended into Japanwank, with Yamato sinking all of the USN's battleships single-handedly and forcing the United States into surrender.
 
This might just lose Japan the war, as they needed every resource they can get. They essentially dragged the US into an armistice. Dumping resources in something so stupid could have tipped the scales back in the US' favor, the Japanese "won" by the thinnest of margins anyway with a heck of a lot of luck.

By the time the bomb was invented, the Germans were too strong and peace almost six months old. No one would have wanted to give it another go.

OOC: Japan winning? Bwaaaa haaaa haaa!!! The US would never surrender to Japan, not after Pearl Harbor. Whatever you're smoking I want.
 
OOC: Japan winning? Bwaaaa haaaa haaa!!! The US would never surrender to Japan, not after Pearl Harbor. Whatever you're smoking I want.
B-but it's a refreshing narrative!:(:rolleyes:

Seriously, I should to write a TL with that title. A super-IJN faces off against a super-retarded USN.:p
 
OOC: Refreshing my ass. A super-IJN that manages to grind the USN down while suffering no losses of their own is BS. After all, the OTL USN only came out on top after losing all but three of its carriers within a year of entering the war.

IC: You know, I once read an ATL on another site called "The Mighty One" where Japan actually does build the Yamato-class. Of course it quickly descended into Japanwank, with Yamato sinking all of the USN's battleships single-handedly and forcing the United States into surrender.

Wasn't that one written by L. Matsumoto?
 
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