DBWI: Who Was the Best Post-Cold War President?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Amadeus, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. TheAllTimeGreatest Well-Known Member

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    Let’s see...

    They’ve got George P. Bush, Governor of Texas and nephew of George W. Bush. A young Hispanic conservative, although admittedly more moderate than past Governors.

    They also have Michael Steele, Senator from Maryland. African American, more of a libertarian-leaning conservative, has an influential pull in the Senate. Also, the fact that he’s been elected three times in as liberal a state as Maryland shows you something.

    There’s Thomas Kean Jr., Senator from New Jersey. A considerably more moderate person in the field. Extremely popular in New Jersey.

    Don’t forget Nikki Haley. Remember when she pulled off that massive upset in 2002 over Congressman Mark Sanford in 2002 to become Governor of South Carolina at just 31 years old? Then made a comeback in 2014 to return to the governor’s mansion, and reelected in 2018. She’s up there with Marco Rubio.

    Bobby Jindal’s in there too. Governor of Louisiana from 2003-2011. Elected Senator in 2014.

    There are others, too. Just can’t remember them all.
     
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  2. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    OOC: Is this a believable map for a Cuomo-Bush race in 1992? Cuomo still wins with 321 electoral votes, but he loses Ohio, New Hampshire, Georgia, Montana, and Colorado.

    Cuomo vs Bush 1992.png
     
  3. TheAllTimeGreatest Well-Known Member

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    OOC: I’d say it’s believable. Perhaps maybe have an explanation as to why Cuomo couldn’t win these states, while Clinton did.

    Also, was the economical climate/foreign policy environment the same ITTL? Like, was the recession the same? Not as bad? Even worse? Did the Persian Gulf War have a worse outcome?
     
  4. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    OOC: Those factors probably remain the same, since the only thing that changes here is Cuomo jumps into the race in late 1991.

    My reasoning for the map is that Cuomo does worse in the South and West, while narrowly losing Ohio and NH since Clinton only barely carried those states in OTL.
     
  5. Electric Monk Does Your Believing For You

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    OOC: Lose all the Southern states (except maybe Missouri if you count it as South) but toss Ohio back in. Mario Cuomo is not winning much south of Mason-Dixon, potentially a better fit for Ohio than Clinton though. Montana has an interesting pattern of liking new presidents that a weird enough race out there makes it a maybe as well.

    Meta OOC: how are you getting 270’s old maps? I’m stuck with weird ugly useless new ones.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  6. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    OOC: I could see Cuomo winning Ohio, though I don't think he'd lose every Southern state. In 1992 the Democrats still had a strong electoral base in the South, and despite his liberalism Cuomo had enough appeal to economic populists and values voters to win perhaps a few Southern states. It's worth pointing out that although Cuomo had a reputation as a liberal because of his opposition to the death penalty, he was more moderate than many people (including his own supporters) liked to think: he cut taxes multiple times as Governor of NY, supported making work a condition for welfare, and based his personal opposition to abortion on his Christian faith (despite supporting Roe v Wade).

    Cuomo would do worse in the South than Clinton (that's a given); he'd certainly lose Georgia. Maybe he'd also lose Tennessee and Kentucky. But he'd most likely win Arkansas, Louisiana, and West Virginia if he runs a strong enough campaign and picks the right running mate (Gore in this DBWI).
     
  7. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @Electric Monk For the 270 maps, I go to 270towin.com and find their interactive maps for presidential elections.

    Here is a different version of 1992 where Cuomo loses Tennessee and Kentucky but wins Colorado and Ohio. Ironically, he does better than in the previous map in terms of electoral votes:

    Cuomo wins Ohio.png
     
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  8. Electric Monk Does Your Believing For You

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    OOC: Not in Presidential elections since civil rights. Think Cuomo ‘92 as improving Dukakis’s map, instead of scaling down Clinton. You simply can’t extrapolate Clinton’s performance in the South to Cuomo minus a few points—same way some other Dem is not going to pull off Carter’s map in ‘76.

    I know, I meant how are you getting their old maps. I only see their new ugly maps like so.

    42EBF052-265E-4F23-95DB-B82888B39DA8.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  9. Pax Americana Gamer Extraordinaire

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    I think McCain was the best by far. His successful prosection and ending of the War in Afghanistan saved us a boat load of time, money, and lives. If he hadn't done that, why, we may still be in there today!

    As for the election in 2020, I see Ted Cruz entering the race at any time now, espically as Primary season really gets into the swing of things. When the polls include him as a canadate, he narrowly beats out Rubio, and that's with Rubio campaigning like crazy, without Ted lifting a finger. As for Tim, well, he is legitimatly the worst. Everything that Obama had, charisma, character, vision, he lacks. His entire platform is "I was Obama's VP."
     
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  10. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    OOC: Are you viewing the maps on a mobile device? I've been creating them on my pc, though I've noticed that the website changed recently (for the worse).
     
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  11. Electric Monk Does Your Believing For You

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    Aside from Mariocare ya know I might go with McCain. He was so angry with his own party he shut down their attempts to reverse said Mariocare, told Americans that taxes would remain where they were to pay for war—his speech on not making the mistake LBJ did was excellent, cracked down on the military’s insane procurement problems… ok sure most of his policies helped the housing crisis and bank collapse go wild which doomed Republicans in 2012 but Obama got one heck of a fix America bill through afterwards.
     
  12. Amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I think McCain was okay. I liked him a lot as a person - there's no questioning his integrity and courage. His response to Hurricane Katrina and Russia's invasion of Georgia were great; that probably got him re-elected in spite of the lackluster economy. And I commend his bipartisanship once the Dems took over Congress in 2011. But his fiscal policies helped cause the 2009 recession, and his judicial appointments were clearly made on the basis of appeasing the conservative base instead of putting the best people on the bench. In my book that prevents him from being a great President, or the best President since 1989.
     
  13. TheAllTimeGreatest Well-Known Member

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    So, how do you guys think the race for 2020 is going? Who do you guys see for potential general election showdowns?