DBWI: When did the last vestiges of the Alexanderine Empire collapse
- Thread starter Fardell
- Start date
wormyguy
Banned
I voted for the Second Division. With the reorganization of the bureaucracy that occurred in the Athenian Empire, as well as the elimination of the Assembly and the introduction of Triadism as the official state religion, one would have to say that it remained the old Alexanderine empire only by law (ooc: the terms de jure and de facto wouldn't be in usage in this TL, for obvious reasons), rather than in practice. Meanwhile, the Persio-Bactrian empire adopted such an eastern cultural standpoint - in addition to the switch to a mounted cavalry army and the union with the Miradid Confederacy, which too would have made it unrecognizable compared to the empire of Alexander's time.
Solomaxwell6
Banned
I said the Fall of Carthage. I'm surprised no one agreed with me.
wormy: During the centuries after the second division, the successor states to the original Alexandrine Empire were culturally different. I will give you that point. However, they were certainly successor states, and, there was a cultural rejuvenation as the end of the first century AD (look up the Cults of Alexander on Wikipedia; they were a fringe group, but very interesting and certainly telling of the time!). This is actually part of what led to the Final Division; the Southern Hellenic Empire was Alexandrine in every sense of the term while the Northern Hellenic Empire was beginning to fall under more German influences. That's why I wouldn't consider points like the fall of the Breton or Roman empires to be the end of the Alexandrine Empire; they were culturally German, not Hellenic. It was only when Carthage, the last truly Hellenic empire, was overrun by the Sassanids that Hellenic culture and law disappeared.
wormy: During the centuries after the second division, the successor states to the original Alexandrine Empire were culturally different. I will give you that point. However, they were certainly successor states, and, there was a cultural rejuvenation as the end of the first century AD (look up the Cults of Alexander on Wikipedia; they were a fringe group, but very interesting and certainly telling of the time!). This is actually part of what led to the Final Division; the Southern Hellenic Empire was Alexandrine in every sense of the term while the Northern Hellenic Empire was beginning to fall under more German influences. That's why I wouldn't consider points like the fall of the Breton or Roman empires to be the end of the Alexandrine Empire; they were culturally German, not Hellenic. It was only when Carthage, the last truly Hellenic empire, was overrun by the Sassanids that Hellenic culture and law disappeared.
Agree w/ Solo. Carthage was IMO the last recognizably true-Hellenic culture. Follower states like the HHE just had vestigial reminders like the use of some Hellenic Old Greek as a legal-bureaucratic-diplomatic language, some symbology, architecture, and ceremony, and other such imitative things. If you argue the HHE was "Alexanderine" you'd have to argue the same about the Hydralian Empire (OOC: more-or-less Brazil - follows the "Great Hydra River").
I agree with the other posters that the Hellenic culture continued in the southern region of the Athenian Empire and the middle-eastern regions of the Persio-Bactrian empire.
I prefer the traditionalist take on the fall of the Alexanderine Empire. The death of Alexander XV not only ended the last visages of Alexander's bloodline but it triggered the succession wars that would wreak the Mediterranean basin for the next two hundred years. Though every western monarch for the next 1000 years would still invoke the mantle of Alexander, the unifying culture was over.
Solomaxwell6
Banned
They're sort of a localized means of dating used in certain European regions. It refers to the year when western Europe was truly united under the Athenian Empire. Don't worry about them, too much; the events are important, not what the year is. BC is an abbreviation of the Greek words "Barbaros Cratos," for barbarian rule. "Aeon Deuteros" is the second life; ie, their transition from barbarian to Athenian rule.
ooc: I'm having the year 1 AD be when Gaul officially joined Athenian rule in the Western Hellenic Empire. If you have any objections, feel free; I had difficulty thinking of something else to have AD and BC.
Solomaxwell6
Banned
ooc: This is a DBWI: Double Blind What If. The idea is that we're taking the point of view as inhabitants of a different TL. In this TL, the Macedonian Empire was clearly much more successful and longer lasting. The idea is we, the posters, expand it ourselves. It wouldn't make much sense for someone in the other TL to expand on them, because they're probably bits of history we'd already know about. It's just an alt history version of the "When did the last vestiges of the Roman Empire collapse" poll in non-political chat.
Baskilisk
Banned
OOC: I know what a DBWI is. I'm just saying, a DBWI is based on the premise that pollgoers can guess what might have happened, and add their own speculations. However, here, history is (or at least should be) unrecognizable or almost unrecognizable after Alexander's life. This would be fine, it's just a DBWI on shaky ground as it would require some hefty speculation. The problem is, on top of that, we have to choose from a list of events that appear to be anachronistic to ATL events, but aren't explained in at least a minimalistic way to show what they even mean. We might as well be picking from a list of random colors. My vote goes for Robin's Egg Blue. My reason? That was the color of Alexander's clothing when he was buried, according to me, just now.
Solomaxwell6
Banned
ooc: But that's the idea and the fun of it! We make up the reasons and meanings.