DBWI What if Washington had been burned?

[Richmond_Pope]

Ok, I'll probably get banned for once again revisiting The Greatest Victory in American History but....

I've been re-reading about the fabled battle of Washington in August 1814 and struck by what a close run thing it was. Yes, yes. I know the British were out-numbered by the Americans, that they had no cavalry or artillery to speak of. And that they were exhausted by marching all day in the sweltering heat.

On the other hand, what if Ross, the British commander, doesn't get picked off by a sniper early on? More, what if disorganization had really done the American side in? What if they don't adjust their lines at the last minute so they actually support each other? More unbelievably, what if they fail to destroy the Bladensburg bridge, thus forcing the British to make their suicidal charges across the river itself?

So, having defeated the Americans, this leaves the big question. Would the British really have destroyed Washington in retaliation for the burning of York? After all, they'd already burned Buffalo. And what would the effect have been on America?

 

[DJjablonski]

depending on how through the burning is, america may have to move to philadelphia for a while while DC is rebuilt, America is likely much more motivated to keep going with the war though, and this could very well blow up in britain's face

 

[funnyhat]

At first I thought this was about George Washington, burned as a witch...

 

[Dave Howery]

If they wanted to take the time to do a thorough job of it, they could have effectively destroyed the town. But, AIUI, they were kind of in a hurry, wanting to quickly take and burn DC, and then go on to... Baltimore? (sorry, don't recall the details). And a lot of those DC buildings were built of stone, so they might have been recoverable in a hasty burning.... new fixtures and beams, slap paint on all the stone, and good to go. So, the Presidents House might be the Black House or Grey House, or whatever color they chose (what's a good color to cover up smoke stains?). OTOH, if the Brits are more thorough, the US would have to build a new town from scratch... lots of possibilities/PODs there...

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Don't be silly. They didn't burn any of the traitors. Oh wait, you're talking about the city.

 

[Corjomc]

Well You probably just killed the Presidency of William H. Winder and the "Era of Good Feelings" politically.

 

[Richmond_Pope]

Actually, in the OT, the only American actually killed in the burning of DC was.... John Lewis, a grand-nephew of George Washington.

Previously, he'd been impressed into the British navy FOR years, along with his brother. Tormented by his shipmates because of his connection, he finally gained release six months before the start of the war. And when he witnessed what the British were doing to the city... well, as a 2016 article in The Smithsonian described it

On August 24, 1814, he watched British forces destroy the city bearing his great uncle’s name. Enflamed with anger—and, quite likely, with alcohol—Lewis jumped onto his horse, grabbed his sword, and rode up to a group of British troops. He hurled “a volley of epithets” at the enemy soldiers and was in the act of swinging his sword at one when he was shot. Lewis fell dead from his horse and his body lay in the street as the British continued on to burn the White House.

It was that kind of day for America.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...g-dc-was-related-george-washington-180961344/

 

[JonKenobi]

Didn’t we get Jamaica and British Guyiana at the treaty of Madrid?

I remember reading somewhere that the victory at Washington and New Orleans forced the British to the table.

 

[Brady Kj]

I think a permanent move of the capitol would be in order. Washington was not an old town. I'd hope they'd select someplace further west, and it's plausible they'd do that, because the closer they are to the Atlantic Ocean, the more vulnerable they'd be to the British Navy.
Of course, that is if there is still a United States after the war is over. If Washington burns, the war is lost, and if the war is lost when the country is that young, I'd say the very best case scenario would involve the US losing most of its west and a big chunk of its north.

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

At first I thought this was about George Washington, burned as a witch...

[ He survives, now wearing an iron mask and a long cloak, and vowing to bring DOOM upon King George III ]

 

[The Uchronian]

Well.....I dunno. Some, like @Brady Kj , have suggested that if D.C. had been burned, then the U.S. might well have fallen apart-but I'm not so sure of that. If you look at John Sobel's classic 1812! For Want of a Map AH novel from 1976, as I recall, the occupation of D.C. only lasted 26 hours, and despite the fire from TTL's burning and a tornado(yes, presumably the same one from OTL, or at least a very similar event.), the Americans decided to simply rebuild D.C., after their refuge in Brookeville, MD(Same place, interestingly, where President Lincoln went after the Confederates briefly occupied the city in November 1863 IOTL-I assume Sobel may have been inspired by this? Seems plausible, anyway), had ended and they were able to retake it from the British on Aug. 25th.

So unless D.C. is totally razed, I can't quite see the city being completely abandoned, as newly founded as it may have been.

 

[thekingsguard]

It would have given the Brits something at the negotiating tables, instead of a string of embarassing defeats.

Brits burn DC, maybe they keep the Ontario Pennensula?

 

[The Uchronian]

It would have given the Brits something at the negotiating tables, instead of a string of embarassing defeats.

Brits burn DC, maybe they keep the Ontario Pennensula?

Possibly, and with that, Toronto, Huronia, wouldn't be the border city that it is today IOTL(But I do wonder what would become of Carswell, Jefferson, and Grantsville?).

OOC: Carswell is OTL Windsor, Ont.-Jefferson and Grantsville are the cities of Hamilton, and London, Ont. respectively.

 

[thekingsguard]

Possibly, and with that, Toronto, Huronia, wouldn't be the border city that it is today IOTL(But I do wonder what would become of Carswell, Jefferson, and Grantsville?).

OOC: Carswell is OTL Windsor, Ont.-Jefferson and Grantsville are the cities of Hamilton, and London, Ont. respectively.

Given how many people live there, it would have given a nice boost to British Canada... and a much needed one, given what later happened to Quebec and Acadia.

Or America would have developed without the adition of the Northern great lake states.

 

[m0585]

If this happened, then the British might have secured a permanent enemy in the US.

 

[thekingsguard]

If this happened, then the British might have secured a permanent enemy in the US.

This is also true... with a solid, if not decisive American victory, and British North America limited to Quebec, Acadia, and the holdings of the Hudson Bay Company, things were mostly settled between the US and Britain.

Burning DC, and a firm British colony on the US Northern border, a third war would have been inevitable.

 

[Brady Kj]

Burning DC, and a firm British colony on the US Northern border, a third war would have been inevitable.

Which wars are you thinking of as the first two world wars? It's a bit debatable.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Which wars are you thinking of as the first two world wars? It's a bit debatable.

I think he's referring to the American Revolution and the War of 1812 as the first two. He's not referring to WORLD wars - though I wonder; if you have a United States that is permanently in the Anti-British camp, I wonder if the United States would have become involved in the first World War on the side of Germany. If they do, rather than stay neutral as in OTL, I suppose that Germany wins that war much quicker and decisively than in OTL (maybe Germany wins in 1902, rather than in 1905 as in OTL) and with a more decisive and quicker war we might be sparred Revaunchist Britain and Russia, and be sparred thee second war all together. But that's putting our cart way before the horse.

 

[Brady Kj]

I'm guessing TheKingsGuard is referring to the War of the Austrian Succession and the Seven Years War. The War of 1900 sure was big, but I don't believe it spread as far across the world.

 

[The Uchronian]

Burning DC, and a firm British colony on the US Northern border, a third war would have been inevitable.

Don't think I can disagree here, and that probably wouldn't have ended well for Canada.

Which wars are you thinking of as the first two world wars? It's a bit debatable.

I think he's referring to the American Revolution and the War of 1812 as the first two. He's not referring to WORLD wars - though I wonder; if you have a United States that is permanently in the Anti-British camp, I wonder if the United States would have become involved in the first World War on the side of Germany. If they do, rather than stay neutral as in OTL, I suppose that Germany wins that war much quicker and decisively than in OTL (maybe Germany wins in 1902, rather than in 1905 as in OTL) and with a more decisive and quicker war we might be sparred Revaunchist Britain and Russia, and be sparred thee second war all together. But that's putting our cart way before the horse.

Dan hit the nail on the head here, pretty much.