DBWI: What if the Union had split over slavery in the 1850s?

Well, don't forget about the Colorado Peninsula*. We traded it for Arizona south of the Gila, remember?

*Baja California.
 
I think there'd have been a civil war. Might have been for the best, really... it still shocks me as a Briton that slavery continued in the United States until the 20th century, despite embargoes and pressure from the rest of the world. The USA was a pariah for so long that it'd be interesting to see what a more internationally respected and active nation would have done.

OOC: Is this set in DoD?

IC: Yeah. Thanks to the extreme laissez-fairism of one J.C. Wakefield, of course. At least under Roosevelt Southern slavery was gone by 1909, but not without some major race riots all over that part of the country(The one in Memphis, Tenn. is particular is well-remembered because many of the the former slaves actually fought back against their antagonists!)
 
OOC: I don't think it's really set in any TL in particular, we're all just building the DBWI from the idea of no American Civil War.
 
OOC: I don't think it's really set in any TL in particular, we're all just building the DBWI from the idea of no American Civil War.

OOC: Okay. DoD, by the way, still has some surviving slavery in the 1950s though it isn't exactly thriving anymore. You'll see why someday soon if you pay attention to the TL. :D
 
ooc Heads of State or government are almost universally Commander in Chiefs of their military, not just in the United States. Also, the U.S. Constitution names the President as Commander in Chief, so they would need a constitutional amendment to change that.

OOC: Yes, I realize this. This is what the Young Napoleon strives to change and does so on sheer charisma alone. It reflects the ATL USA's political structures and Little Mac's own belief that war was too complex to be left to politicians meeting the power of the Federal Government.
 
OOC: Okay. DoD, by the way, still has some surviving slavery in the 1950s though it isn't exactly thriving anymore. You'll see why someday soon if you pay attention to the TL. :D

OOC: Do you have DoD on the brain this month or something? I feel like I've seen you bring up up in a number of mostly unrelated threads...

IC: So, secession. Would the northern states let the south go in peace? If not, how much of a chance does the south have? On one hand, I'm pretty sure I recall reading that southern states provided a disproportionally large share of the US officer corps. On the other hand, they don't have McClellan...
 
IC: So, secession. Would the northern states let the south go in peace? If not, how much of a chance does the south have? On one hand, I'm pretty sure I recall reading that southern states provided a disproportionally large share of the US officer corps. On the other hand, they don't have McClellan...

Nor do they have Rosecrans or Buell. Those three officers *made* the modern US Army. I can't see them doing well against any of them.
 
IC: Well, if the South secedes, I think it was readily apparent, even by this date, that the power that the South had held was no longer so important to the Union. Maybe the North would have kept along its merry way; after all, cotton prices fell shortly afterwards. Without soybeans, the South is nothing.

I still find it amusing that the South's agriculture was only saved because a guy really, REALLY wanted to get away from his father because he hated the old man. Talk about your For Want of a Nail. I wonder what Grant would have become if he'd stayed in the army. :confused:

If there is secession though, which states would secede? I can imagine South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Texas might...Louisiana and Arkansas too?

And what would happen to Robert E. Lee? I mean, he's well known for going back into engineering and helping both the Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific build their transcontinental railroads, to the point that he's a playable character in Railroad Tycoon 3's "Northern Transcontinental" scenario, but would he be caught up in the split at all?

You know, it'd be really funny if Lee, who was supposedly one of the greatest soldiers in addition to being the greatest engineers of all time, wound up serving against Grant, the other "potential" soldier. Grant's views on military matters were evidently some of the clearest and most concise of their time, so who knows? If the South somehow survived the Young Napoleon I can't help but think that maybe things would have ultimately wound up *that* weird.

It's also weird to consider that Louisiana's Greatest Governor Ever, Braxton Bragg, would probably have gone into the war. It would have been a waste of a good administrator to have him serving for either side. :( The man was the greatest Louisiana governor of the 19th Century and the one that made this state the commercial center of the modern South.
 
OOC: I don't think it's really set in any TL in particular, we're all just building the DBWI from the idea of no American Civil War.

OOC: That is, indeed, the case. It's not meant to be anything in particular, just an idea I got when looking through Wikipedia.
 
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