DBWI: What if the Persians and Byzantines hadn't defeated the Mohammedans?

KaiserCorax

Banned
What if at the battle of Al-Qadisiyyah the Rashidun Caliphate had managed to defeat the Sassanids, and the Caliph hadn't been killed? Would the Mohammedans have been able to destroy Persia? Would The Byzantines have continued warring against the Persians, or would they still have realised the threat posed by the Mohammedans?
 
I had to look on-line what Mahommedans are. I thought they were some kind of Turks. So, you think that a limited raid on one of the most important empires in history could have brought the end to both the Sassanids and the Byzantines? A raid led by some random arab dudes, united under a pseudo-Jewish sect for some fifty years before reversing to their old internal struggles?

Please move this thread to the ASB section... What next? The Mahommedans destroy the Vizigothic Kingdom? :D

Yeah, I'm well aware that their invasion had some good victories and achievements. But so did the heftalites, so did the slavs.... if every attack manages to create an empire, we would have tons of them running around...
 
I have never heard of this Rashidun Caliphate either. Nor, come to think of it, have I heard the term Caliphate used before. Anyway, with my brief knowledge of the Mahammedans, they had no chance of conquering the Sassanids. I mean maybe, maybe if you have the Persians and Byzantines get into a long, mutually exhausting war right before the Mahammedans arrive on the scene, they could take Mesopotamia but nothing more, and anyway, they wouldn't be able to hold it for long.
 
The Mahommedians are still a major world religion. The Arabs may not have been able to spread it by force, but by missionary work. Perhaps if the POD was later, after the Arabs had spread the religion to east Africa, and then have the Arabs invade those area's and build them up for a while (conquering Axum as Mahommedian Africans attempted to do around this time would give them all the civilization they could ask ever ask for!) Then you could have the religion become a major power capable of threatening the Persians and East Romans, maybe even capable of conquering Mesopotamia, or Syria, or any of the places of the two empires where their religion is in the majority. Otherwise, I don't see them expanding to far without the Zoroastrians and/or Christians declaring holy war and pushing them back.
 
The Mahommedians are still a major world religion. The Arabs may not have been able to spread it by force, but by missionary work. Perhaps if the POD was later, after the Arabs had spread the religion to east Africa, and the have then have the Arabs invade those area's and build them up for a while (conquering Axum as Mahommedian Africans attempted to do around this time would give them all the civilization they could ask ever ask for!) then you could have the religion become a major power capable of threatening the Persians and East Romans, maybe even capable of conquering Mesopotamia, or Syria, or any of the places of the two empires where their religion is in the majority.

How does one conquer Mesopotamia from East Africa?
 
I'm sorry, this is complete ASB. A bunch of nomads couldn't have defeated the eternal Roman Empire (as much as some of the Gauls on this site would like), let alone the Persians.
 
I'm sorry, this is complete ASB. A bunch of nomads couldn't have defeated the eternal Roman Empire (as much as some of the Gauls on this site would like), let alone the Persians.

Excuse me; but that the Gallii never have been nomads. Before the conquest by Rome, Gallia was heavily urbanized. Unbelievable; even on a thread about Arabs(!) we still get this anti-Gallian propaganda! Utterly disgusting.

Gallia hasn't been a part of the Empire since before the fall of the Western Empire. Just because there is a hopped up dictatorship in Rome at the moment, does not mean that the Empire was refounded, and are Gallians are going to kick you out of our country yet!
 
Excuse me; but that the Gallii never have been nomads. Before the conquest by Rome, Gallia was heavily urbanized. Unbelievable; even on a thread about Arabs(!) we still get this anti-Gallian propaganda! Utterly disgusting.

Gallia hasn't been a part of the Empire since before the fall of the Western Empire. Just because there is a hopped up dictatorship in Rome at the moment, does not mean that the Empire was refounded, and are Gallians are going to kick you out of our country yet!
I hear even the east doesn't recognise the so called "emperor of the west" that's ruling Rome.
 

KaiserCorax

Banned
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As you know, the green is the current extent of the Mohammedan religion, and the yellow was the maximum extent of the Rashidun Caliphate. However, I have coloured areas I am interested in orange - is it possible for the Caliphate to take that over?
 
Even if these nomads had defeated the Eastern Empire, then they never would have made it into the Balkans, the Bulgars would have held them back.
 
As you know, the green is the current extent of the Mohammedan religion, and the yellow was the maximum extent of the Rashidun Caliphate. However, I have coloured areas I am interested in orange - is it possible for the Caliphate to take that over?
Possibly. Conquering all of either the East Roman Empire, or the Persians is unlikely though.
 
The Rishidans made the extremely stupid mistake of trying to take on both the Romans and Sassanians on the same side and essentially uniting them, something that was almost ASB in and of itself, and now we're expected to believe that they can take Agepytus and southern Persia with nothing but ragtag tribesmen against two of the most powerful militaries of Late Antiquity? Where do they get the manpower or the demographic basis to wage such a campaign, unless the Mohammedan Generals all had the acumen of Alexander the Great or something they're going to get crushed even worse than they already did...
 

KaiserCorax

Banned
What if the Persians and Mohammedans had allied, or truced?
Would the Mohammedans have been able to conquer Byzantium?
 
I actually see an alliance with the romans to be more likely, considering Mahommedans are basically a heretical sect of Christianity.
In the most extreme scenario I don’t see them holding onto Mesopotamia for more than a few decades.
If you really want to have them succeed, a climatic disaster or a general crisis in the empire might cause the Mahommedan branch of Christianity to be seen as more attractive and eventually a converted pretender could try to take over the empire in a similar way in which Christianity replaced Mithraism. Still that is a lot of ifs, almost ASB.
 
As you know, the green is the current extent of the Mohammedan religion, and the yellow was the maximum extent of the Rashidun Caliphate. However, I have coloured areas I am interested in orange - is it possible for the Caliphate to take that over?

Even in the green area, mohammedans are very sparsely populated today.
 
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