DBWI: What if the 7 Months War had not ended Christmas of 1914?
- Thread starter Oweno
- Start date
Please, how would that work? No Christian nation has ever fought another past Christmas since, except for when peace talks over the winter break down. The troops don't fight. Heck, even the Ottomans unofficially observe the Christmas Truce when fighting Christian nations.
I suppose it would be a much darker world, then.
I suppose it would be a much darker world, then.
Probably Kaiser Wilhelm would not have granted the right of voting to more veterans in 1915. Women would still not be voting today.
Without voting veterans, no Veteran movement at the German Reichs chancellery as it happened in Early 20s.
Oh yeah, and no French civil war in 1915/16 and no Christmas massacre in Paris.
Without voting veterans, no Veteran movement at the German Reichs chancellery as it happened in Early 20s.
Oh yeah, and no French civil war in 1915/16 and no Christmas massacre in Paris.
OOC: Obviously, such a quick end to the war means a Schlieflin Plan success, so...
Well, I read a book called "The Great War" once, an ASB scenario where the war lasted 4 (!) years... and Germany lost and America joined the Aliies... WTF? Truly ASB. I'll bet that France would be in even worse shape, and that German troops would still march around the Eiffel Tower... Still Socialist Republic of France.
Well, I read a book called "The Great War" once, an ASB scenario where the war lasted 4 (!) years... and Germany lost and America joined the Aliies... WTF? Truly ASB. I'll bet that France would be in even worse shape, and that German troops would still march around the Eiffel Tower... Still Socialist Republic of France.
OOC: Er, no. Sorry man, but the idea is that the war ended with the Christmas Truce going permanent, so to speak.
OOC: Schlieflin pla\n success would mean that the Germans would be takinf out the French, and when the Truce comes, the French say "OK, time to end the war".
Oweno
Banned
ooc: Look no one asked what you thought OK. You keep being pain in the Ass. Just answer the question. Do you know waht a DWI Is? If you do ,Answer it.
OOC: Really, you need to cool your jets. He was elaborating on what he meant in another post.
Well my guess is that the formation of the European Economic Community of 1924, and the eventual formation of the European Union of 1961 would certainly be eliminated in the ATL. Just consider that the administration of the combined German, British, Belgian, French, Ottoman and Spanish Empires has helped to administrate over close to 50% of the human race with relative ease for its populace. Considering how the British Parliament almost left the EEC in 1942, under P.M. Mosley, I am always surprised how close we have been to a "Second Great War"...
I agree. Although those genocidal colonial wars in India and East Africa could be interpreted as the "second great war". At least, no nukes were used during these wars, thanks to Einstein's address to the EEC-Council under the presidency of Emperor Louis Ferdinand.
Well, you are all forgetting about the Pacific War of 1923-30! This conflict had a significant impact on Europe, especially after Britain foolishly entered on the Japanese side in 1925 in response to US violations of free trade and the rights of neutrals. US victory in that war led directly or indirectly to the loss of Canada (which became an independent republic under US "protection"), and the secession of Australia and New Zealand to join an alliance with the US in the war against the Japanese Empire. Arguably, an EU including the British Isles and the Russias would never have evolved if not for the dangers to European interests posed by a militarily dominant USAA. The USAA also became the chief supporter of the Irish, Arabic, and Indian Independence movements and formally allied with the Indians and East Africans in the World War of 1944-47 (what you Europeans refer to as the "second Great War").
Yes, this war ended prematurely as a result of Professor Einstein's announcement that the World Zionist Assembly had developed an explosive uranium bomb and would deploy these weapons unless the warring powers came to the peace table, but it is now known that the United States of America and Australasia, the European Union, the Sino-Indian League, and the Islamic Jihad are all researching such weapons of their own. You may rest assured the USAA has not given up on its pledge to assist the peoples of Africa and Arabia in their struggles against European and Ottoman oppression!
Yes, this war ended prematurely as a result of Professor Einstein's announcement that the World Zionist Assembly had developed an explosive uranium bomb and would deploy these weapons unless the warring powers came to the peace table, but it is now known that the United States of America and Australasia, the European Union, the Sino-Indian League, and the Islamic Jihad are all researching such weapons of their own. You may rest assured the USAA has not given up on its pledge to assist the peoples of Africa and Arabia in their struggles against European and Ottoman oppression!
The Franco-German War
I think many historians regard the Second Franco-German War of 1914 as a kind of War of 1870 Part 2. The problem was the Germans miscalculated the involvement of Britain and the ability of British forces to cross the Channel, deploy to the Marne and Aisne rivers and halt the German advance.
It's hard to believe Berlin didn't think the British would honour the 1839 Treaty with Belgium but then London didn't want to see the Germans controlling the Channel ports.
Of course, the war in the East was a more clear-cut success for Germany over Russia but hardly decisive. In terms of territory, the Germans returned Alsace-Lorraine and got much of the rest of Poland so pretty much honours even.
I don't think the rate of attrition could have been sustained indefinitely, 600,000 casualties in just three months - over four years that would have meant 7 million dead so if it hadn't ended at Christmas, it would have only lasted another year or so before the combatants became exhausted or internal dissent led to revolution.
I do think the dominance of France militarily since the 1920s wouldn't have happened and nor presumably would the Anglo-German Alliance to hold it. The change in British foreign policy in the 1930s and 1940s was more a regression back to a pre-1870 foreign policy stance than a deliberate provocation and Imperial jostling with Paris was always more an issue (Fashoda, Vietnam) than it has ever been with Berlin (who, to be fair, helped us in the Second Boer War from 1936-39). Of course, once the Kaiser had been forced out and replaced by a democratic Government in the mid-1920s, it became a lot easier for the British Liberals under John Simon to seek a rapprochement with Germany - we all know that began at the 1936 Olympics.
I also think that if the war had continued, America would probably now rule the world, the European powers having exhausted themselves.
I don't know about the Far East. China was in chaos in 1914 and Japan was already becoming militaristic. The Japanese won't attack either the French or us but the ongoing war with Russia has been brutal as we all know.
I think many historians regard the Second Franco-German War of 1914 as a kind of War of 1870 Part 2. The problem was the Germans miscalculated the involvement of Britain and the ability of British forces to cross the Channel, deploy to the Marne and Aisne rivers and halt the German advance.
It's hard to believe Berlin didn't think the British would honour the 1839 Treaty with Belgium but then London didn't want to see the Germans controlling the Channel ports.
Of course, the war in the East was a more clear-cut success for Germany over Russia but hardly decisive. In terms of territory, the Germans returned Alsace-Lorraine and got much of the rest of Poland so pretty much honours even.
I don't think the rate of attrition could have been sustained indefinitely, 600,000 casualties in just three months - over four years that would have meant 7 million dead so if it hadn't ended at Christmas, it would have only lasted another year or so before the combatants became exhausted or internal dissent led to revolution.
I do think the dominance of France militarily since the 1920s wouldn't have happened and nor presumably would the Anglo-German Alliance to hold it. The change in British foreign policy in the 1930s and 1940s was more a regression back to a pre-1870 foreign policy stance than a deliberate provocation and Imperial jostling with Paris was always more an issue (Fashoda, Vietnam) than it has ever been with Berlin (who, to be fair, helped us in the Second Boer War from 1936-39). Of course, once the Kaiser had been forced out and replaced by a democratic Government in the mid-1920s, it became a lot easier for the British Liberals under John Simon to seek a rapprochement with Germany - we all know that began at the 1936 Olympics.
I also think that if the war had continued, America would probably now rule the world, the European powers having exhausted themselves.
I don't know about the Far East. China was in chaos in 1914 and Japan was already becoming militaristic. The Japanese won't attack either the French or us but the ongoing war with Russia has been brutal as we all know.
What another bunch of American lies. As most civilized people know, the World Zionist Assembly is simply another precursor to the Zionist Overlord Government (ZOG) written about in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (1888) which conclusively shows that the "Yids" are planning to enslave humanity by maintaining a monopoly on the world's resources and technology and forcing those few who hold such items into mortal combat against each other. Why do you think they overthrew the government of Mossadeq in 1953, and unsuccessfully tried to kill the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1981. As his President Ahmadnidjad has said, the Islamic Jihad will reclaim the Holy Land, from those who would defile it.....
Here is an off the wall idea, no Russian Imperial Commonwealth. The chaos that allowed Kerensky to be the first Prime Minister and to help foster the creation of a Constitutional Monarchy is the former Russian Empire. Here is a question, would the demogoge poltican, Lenin have ended up the whole of Russia, or just the failed Belorus Peoples' Autonomus Republic? Would there have been a Boss Dzhugashvili, and would Tbilisi, which he ruled with an iron fist until 1960, have surpassed Monte Carlo as the Gambling Capitol of Europe?
That sounds like a lot for one POD. Just consider that V.I. Lenin got as much of the political concessions that he got mainly because Czar Nicholas II had some of the worst political advisors on the planet. Baron Roman Friederich Nickolaus von Ungern-Sternberg waging of the Russian Civil War from 1920-1924 certainly added to the need to give Lenin the Belarus territory. There is also the fact that Leon Trotsky was organizing socialist rebels in Kharkov starting in 1928...