DBWI What if in 750 the umayyad caliphate had not forcefully converted everyone to arabic polytheism

I would think that by 1400 indonesia would be muslim and india and europe and china would be islamic or christian instead of practicing Arabic Polytheism.
This is my first thread any thoughts
 
Why can't a polytheistic religion grab the title of "Caliphite" it's not like the first time someone else stole a term and changed it from the original meaning
 
Caliphate is a very charged term specifically in the context of Islam. I'd be hard pressed to imagine how you would begin untangling that.
 
How would you even get a non-Muslim ruler called a Caliph considering that the title is explicitly the successor to Muhammad, the Prophet of the Muslim faith?
 

Deleted member 97083

How would you even get a non-Muslim ruler called a Caliph considering that the title is explicitly the successor to Muhammad, the Prophet of the Muslim faith?
OOC: Well, at one point pre-Islam, Caliph was just the word for any successor. In a scenario where pagan Arabia unites and expands, a Caliph could be one of many successors of an Arab version of Alexander; an Arab diadochi, and there would be multiple Caliphs instead of one.
 
OOC: Well, at one point pre-Islam, Caliph was just the word for any successor. In a scenario where pagan Arabia unites and expands, a Caliph could be one of many successors of an Arab version of Alexander; an Arab diadochi, and there would be multiple Caliphs instead of one.
OOC: yes but the OP assumes that Islam exists ITTL.
 
OOC: In one of history's great ironies, the Ummayyads were descended from Muhammed's principal opponent. They were accused during their period in power of not being very Islamic.
So, there is a way to do this, the Ummayyads never really abandon paganism and just keep winning, including crushing the Byzantines, and the prestige enables them to crush the Abbassid revolt. They then succeed in importing the old pagan gods back into "Islam". However, its still called "Islam" unless the Shia somehow survive and manage to reboot Islam as an underground religion, albeit one still universal and monotheistic. You could also do something with a POD in Muhammed's lifetime, he dies early or has to compromise with the Mecca establishment more than he did OTL.
 
OOC: In one of history's great ironies, the Ummayyads were descended from Muhammed's principal opponent.

OOC: I mean, that isn't that weird. A whole lot of Muslims were not only decended from Muhammad's opponents (Ikrimah ibn Abu Jahl comes to mind) but were themselves his opponents before converting. Khalid ibn al Walid almost kills Muhammad at Uhud and Umar ibn al Khattab nearly murders Muhammad in his house after discovering that his sister had become a Muslim. You could easily have an Islam-screw where the guy who smothers the religion in the cradle is none other than the great reformer Caliph Umar. The weird thing is not really that the Banu Umayya used to be desended from Muhammad's enemies (hell, Muhammad was related to the man responsible for orchestrating the torture and executions of Muslims in Makkah pre-migration, his uncle Abu Jahl) but that so many of his former enemies switched sides even when he looked like he was losing bad. Whether it's divine intervention or just personal charisma, it's certainly intriguing.


OOC: I hate to be that guy, but this scenario is ASB. When Muawyia and Yazid (perhaps the most disliked of the Umayyads for a) ending the shura council system and b) being a maniac that attacked the Holy Cities and killed the Prophet's grandson, respectively) there were tons of Companions still alive. Furthermore, the kids had been raised by Companions and were only one generation away from the idol-smashing at the Kaaba. Even if Mu'awiya somehow decided to be a secret polytheist and then began to insert it officially into the religion (note: being a bad Muslim doesn't imply that they would throw out the core tenant of the entire religion), he would be overthrown and executed after massive revolts. I'd be shocked if he even had soldiers fighting for him at all after such apostacy. Remember, very recently, the Muslims had waged a bloody war against a new monotheistic prophet who claimed he no longer had to pay the charitable zakat tax. I mean, he also revolted, but all the records we have from the period show a deep animosity (which the early Caliphate never developed for its foreign opponents) on the part of the Muslims towards Musaliymah for what they saw as his attempt to drag Arabia back into the yawm ul-jahiliyya or "days of ignorance." What do you think they would do if they saw a guy trying to take them back into full-on polytheism?
 
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