DBWI: What if Hitler hadn't be shot by Maurice Bavaud

Eurofed

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As for the Jews, I heard there was a plan to send them all somewhere else. Like Madagascar. I have no idea how they could possibly go about doing that, but it's obvious that the Nazis had no intention of killing them if they had a plan to just send them away. Besides, with French approval, they could have actually created some sort of a Jewish state. A preposterous idea, I know, but it's not impossible.

In all likelihood, this "Jewish state" in Madagascar would have gotten nowhere, and died a slow death just like the similar attempts of the Zionists in Palestine. Even if the Nazis had deported all the German Jews in that island, they would have been far too scarce to build a working state. The "Jewish homeland" has been a bizarre pipedream of the 20th century.
 

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In all likelihood, this "Jewish state" in Madagascar would have gotten nowhere, and died a slow death just like the similar attempts of the Zionists in Palestine. Even if the Nazis had deported all the German Jews in that island, they would have been far too scarce to build a working state. The "Jewish homeland" has been a bizarre pipedream of the 20th century.

I suppose. Still, it's not that bad of an idea, at least for that time period.
 
Hitler is an extremely controversial figure in German history. In the annuals of German nationalism, he is usually wedged somewhere between Bismark and Martin Luther. He is widely seen, particularly amongst conservatives and (ironically) the old guard Junkers as the father of the Greater German Reich. He is seen as the liberator of Saar, commemorated by scores of bronze and iron statues resting in every town-square along the Rhine. Within the former Ostereich he is practically a saint, one can hardly pass a tourist shop without seeing cheap knickknack emblazoned with his portrait. In spite of every posthumous revelation about his own personal views and plans, his cult has been deified by the works of Goebbels and Riefenstahl.

Yet Hitler, presided over the greatest pogrom in the history of central europe. He was a vitrolic racist, anti-semite, and eugenicist who purged Germany of its disabled. Whats worse, many these policies continued to be enforced in Germany until the 70's, He executed his political opponents, destroyed the German unions, and confined registered communists and socialists alike to decade long terms in labor camps. His annexation of the Sudetenland, led to the crippling of Czechoslovakia and its transformation into a pathetic German client state. Whats more, Hitler's defacto alliance with Hungary would lead his successors to conduct a whirlwind of costly milary interventions into the Balkans.

Finally Hitler proved to be an inept economic planner. His rearmament plan was overly ambitious, and far beyond the scope and scale of the German economy. For all the prestige architecture, infrastructure and factory complexs german lacked either the domestic demand or export economy to justify their creation.

Yet Hitler is deified the most by contrast. His brief term as Fuhrer seemed to be a time of optimism, power, and triumph. His successors proved to be far less able, although they were largely burdened by economic ramifications of Hitler's actions.
 

Eurofed

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Yet Hitler, presided over the greatest pogrom in the history of central europe. He was a vitrolic racist, anti-semite, and eugenicist who purged Germany of its disabled. Whats worse, many these policies continued to be enforced in Germany until the 70's,

To be fair, the plight of the German Jews was mirrored by the one of the Dixie and South African Blacks, and the fight for the civil rights of the disabled has progressed at quite a snail's pace across the Western world throughout the 20th century, even if, of course, in very few places they got it as bad as Germany.

His annexation of the Sudetenland, led to the crippling of Czechoslovakia and its transformation into a pathetic German client state. Whats more, Hitler's defacto alliance with Hungary would lead his successors to conduct a whirlwind of costly milary interventions into the Balkans.

Yes, to get involved into the Balkans endless squabbles was very unfortunate, but what the alternative would have been ? To give the Soviets a free shot at the "soft underbelly" of Europe ?

As it concerns Czechoslovakia, it seems like their tight economic, military, and political integration with Germany has benefited them greatly. They have fared much better than their Polish neighbors under the Soviets.
 
To be fair, the plight of the German Jews was mirrored by the one of the Dixie and South African Blacks, and the fight for the civil rights of the disabled has progressed at quite a snail's pace across the Western world throughout the 20th century, even if, of course, in very few places they got it as bad as Germany.

Pardon me for using pogrom, its a somewhat specific term. The Nazi partiy's policies, and those of subsequent conservative parties cause a mass dispersal of central european jews. Their property was confiscated, they were restricted from education and entry to certain professions, and ghettoized. Due to these policies most of Germany's Jewry immigrated over the course of two generations of oppression. As for the Negro, outside of Harlem and Chicago's south side, their plight seems universal.

As it concerns Czechoslovakia, it seems like their tight economic, military, and political integration with Germany has benefited them greatly. They have fared much better than their Polish neighbors under the Soviets.

If the deliberate elimination of Czech cultural and ethnic identity is a benefit, I would have to agree. However the Sudetenland was deliberately germanified, with its ethnic Czech population being largely deported. Likewise ethnic Czechs were increasingly forced out of Slovakia by the more heavy handed methods of Germany's Hungarian allies. Modern day Czech's are basically confined to Prague and its immediate borderlands.
 
We would probably be spared all the hoopla going on right now about the marriage of Kronprinz Georg to Princess Maria Fidelia von Habsburg-Este later this summer.

Even though the monarchy is popular now in Germany, there is a good chance it might not have been restored in 1946 in spite of the good character of the late, lamented Kaiser Louis Ferdinand I. Louis Ferdinand II is a good constitutional monarch in his way but he just doesn't have the personality of his father. Even though he has been Kaiser since 1994, he still hardly ever leaves his estates outside Koenigsburg in Ostpreussen. Hopefully, he will return to Potsdam for his son's wedding.
 
We would probably be spared all the hoopla going on right now about the marriage of Kronprinz Georg to Princess Maria Fidelia von Habsburg-Este later this summer.

Even though the monarchy is popular now in Germany, there is a good chance it might not have been restored in 1946 in spite of the good character of the late, lamented Kaiser Louis Ferdinand I. Louis Ferdinand II is a good constitutional monarch in his way but he just doesn't have the personality of his father. Even though he has been Kaiser since 1994, he still hardly ever leaves his estates outside Koenigsburg in Ostpreussen. Hopefully, he will return to Potsdam for his son's wedding.

No restoration of the German monarchy would butterfly away the antagonism the Soviets had towards Germany when Louis Ferdinand I offered asylum to Simeon II and Michael when they fled Bulgaria and Romania respectively. They supported continued resistance to the Soviets after the conclusion of the Eastern War along with anti-communist support in Poland. It could be argued the royalty in exile's support led to the wave of pseudo-fascist terrorism in the 50's all the way into the 90's. The more outrageous claims are that monarchist societies based in Germany sent money and means to achieve arms to support the insurgency. The veracity is hardly there though.

Relations haven't been cool ever since, especially Ferdinand's son refuses to acknowledge the issue or offer apologies to the Soviets or the Americans, even after the bombings of the embassies in Italy in '73.
 
Yeah, we have all heard the revisionist school's thesis that the Nazi regime was just itching for an excuse to stage some kind of mega-pogrom and eventually expel all Jews from Germany (a modern version of the expulsion of the Jews from Spain).
Or England, or ... You can nearly insert every european kingdom from the medivial age here.
 
I agree with the other posters that Hitler wouldn't have started a second Great War, everyone knew what that would entail. But I can see a Germany under his leadership having great scope to push for territorial concessions from Poland, while France and Britain are embroiled in the war against Japan. That is if he manags to keep the German economy going.
 
What worry me is the soviet military build up all along their European borders. Premier Putin is up to something and my guts tell me that it won't be pretty.
France and Germany and the United Kingdom, Belgium and the Netherland and many others countries have signed a mililtary alliance (who would have thought) and have themselve begun a military build up.

Myself I have been put into a militia if there is a mobilisation I will drafted into the army and in the eventuality of a war send to fight.

So what Hitler could have done is not my priority right know.
OOC: I supose without the WWII there was no motivation to actively research on nuke.
 
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I've just had this crazy though. As we all know no nuclear weapon has ever been used in Europe (Thank God) but what if Hitler living caused a Second Great War in Europe to start some time in the early 40's rather than the more limited conflicts in the Balkans as some historians have suggested.
As we know the British finally got the bomb in 1946 and used it to end the Japanese War, but there were plenty of other people looking into it. If you have a war break out in 1940 you could easily get the Franco-British program started then rather than a year later. Assuming the war lasts as long as the Great War did you could see one get used right here in Europe rather than just in Asia and Africa!!

OOC: Nuclear weapons are inevitable as long as there is world tension and a hostile Soviet Union has already been established. That doesn't prevent maintenance of big armies and the possibility of being drafted from the militia (see the Cold War).
 
OOC (Out of Character): It's a Double-Blind (DB) thread. People discuss Alternative History from the perspective of a different TL, where Hitler died in 1938 and no WWII occurred.

Very interesting. I definitely took a double-take when I saw this thread.
 
Is the royal wedding going to be broadcast on international TV?I'd love to see it.BTW how well is the new Internet Service going in Europe and what is happening to the Soviets?Did Reformers take over?Sorry, I forgot:Kronprinze George(English version_to Maria?
 

Eurofed

Banned
Pardon me for using pogrom, its a somewhat specific term. The Nazi partiy's policies, and those of subsequent conservative parties cause a mass dispersal of central european jews. Their property was confiscated, they were restricted from education and entry to certain professions, and ghettoized. Due to these policies most of Germany's Jewry immigrated over the course of two generations of oppression. As for the Negro, outside of Harlem and Chicago's south side, their plight seems universal.

Sadly, you are right on both counts.

If the deliberate elimination of Czech cultural and ethnic identity is a benefit, I would have to agree. However the Sudetenland was deliberately germanified, with its ethnic Czech population being largely deported. Likewise ethnic Czechs were increasingly forced out of Slovakia by the more heavy handed methods of Germany's Hungarian allies. Modern day Czech's are basically confined to Prague and its immediate borderlands.

Deliberate what ? It's not like people were forced to not speak Czech at gunpoint. It is true that Czech seems to be a dying language (it is also happening to cultures with a much richer and older heritage than Czech, got any luck finding a young or middle-aged Korean-speaker in the Japanese Empire of late ?) as the last three generations of Czechs have embraced German culture (I do expect Czechia to end the increasingly ridiculous charade of its independence and join the German Empire within the current decade).

But it largely happened without coercion. German was taught as the mandatory second language in Czech schools but young Czechs spontaneously embraced it out of the influence of German popular culture, because it made easier for them to get high-paying jobs, and stuff.

Honestly, one might argue that things are eventually returning to their normal historical course. Bohemia-Moravia had been a cultural and political part of German empires for nearly a millennium before a bunch of intellectuals got ambitious and invented a language first, then a nation.

Czechoslovakia turned out to be yet another of those European artificial states created by power-hungry nationalist cliques and misguided great powers that never seem to go to a good end, see also Yugoslavia and Belgium.

We all know how poorly the former ended, and I do expect the Genscher-Pompidou partition plan to be ratified and pull the plug on the embarassing state of the latter within the current year. The Flemish in the Netherlands, the Walloons in France, they should have done it in 1831 already, perhaps we would have been spared the British belligerance in the Great War.
 
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