DBWI: What if Germany was not broken up after WWI?

I recently read from a history textbook about the Treaty of Versailles and the harsh conditions it imposed upon Germany. In addition to forcing the dissolution of the German Empire into the sovereign nations of Prussia, Bavaria, Hanover, and Rhineland (demilitarized at the border), Kaiser Wilhelm II was forced to abdicate, the German-ruled parts of Africa were divided up between the French, British and Belgians, and none of the newly created countries could merge with Austria (which lost its own empire).

The Prussians offered the crown to German Crown Prince Wilhelm, and he was crowned King Wilhelm III. Wilhelm reigned as a constitutional monarch with limited powers while the junkers dominated the government. Paul von Hindenburg was elected Chancellor in 1920 and held the job until his retirement in 1932. Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop succeeded Hindenburg as Chancellor.

In Bavaria, Adolf Hitler attempted to overthrow the democratically elected government in November 1923. The abortive putsch resulted in about 20 deaths, mostly of Bavarian soldiers. Seeing what a troublemaker Hitler was, the Bavarians deported him back to Austria after serving two years in jail. He was lucky. His colleagues, Ernst Rohm, Hermann Goering and Erich Ludendorff, were not and they were hung by Christmas. The ban on the Nazis from political activity remains to this very day.

Then, there was the Hanoverian Civil War which the Communists won in 1934. France and Britain were reluctant to intervene in Hanover. But when Rosa Luxemberg became President, she offered the Vice Presidency to Sudeten Communist Leader Klement Gottwald if agreed to an anschluss of the Sudetenland to Hanover.

But her belligerency towards Prussia was the last straw. An attempted Marxist revolt in Danzig started the war in 1936. It was no contest. The Prussians had the superior military thanks to Erwin Rommel. After six months of war, Luxemberg was captured, tried as a war criminal and hung in the public square. Former Defense Minister Karl Doenitz became President of post-Communist Hanover. Rommel would become Chancellor of Prussia and retire in 1958.

What became of Hitler? Back in Austria, he wrote a book of his experiences as a prisoner titled My Struggle (Mein Kampf). The book sold only a few thousand copies and proved to be a piece of trash. Hitler turned to the bottle and finally snapped after the death of his niece Geli Raubal. He committed suicide by swallowing cyanide pills.

What if France and Britain decided not to break up Germany? If Woodrow Wilson survived his heart attack in 1916, would he have convinced the Allies not to punish Germany that harshly?

Wilson's successor, President Thomas Marshall was reluctant to take a leading role in the post-war negotiations. The United States was weary of war and wanted to stay out of European affairs. Nevertheless, the Senate approved the Treaty of Versailles.
 
I think at that time, Britain and France thought that breaking The German Empire up into supposedly neutral nations would cease the threat of an opposing power, but as the saying goes: Beware the wounded Rottweiler.

Of course, the Germans found ways to get back at Britain and France. Remember those anti-colonial groups in Algeria and India that did those attacks on the French and British mainlands. They had to get their funding from somewhere, so who was really surprised when the French government did catch those Algerians who were responsible for the infamous 'Bombing of Versailles' in the early 50's and it was found they were on the payroll of that Prussian terrorist organization known as Adler aus Eisen. Of course it only got more turbulent after that. All I can say is they should have seen it coming.
 
I'm probably going to sound like former President Patrick Buchanan, the decision to breakup Germany after WWI was both unnecessary and dangerous to the security of Europe. Without the "buffer state" that a united Germany could have provided, Europe has been at the mercy of Soviet whims since the rise of Joseph Stalin in 1924, his successor Lavrentii Beria in 1956, and even his current successors Premiers Zhirinovsky and Putin....

The Communist takeover of Italy of 1958 could have been prevented had we supported Benito Mussollini's government, starting in 1953. Greece could have been saved in 1955, had we just provided guns to theguerillas, starting in 1947....

Unfortunately, we did nothing....
 
Let's get serious, can you really see Germany NOT broken up after that long and bloody a war. Both England and France was out for blood, of course they were going to break up Germany. It was a done deal from the moment of the armistice.
 
Honestly, with or without the allies the breakup was running pretty close to inevitable. Germany was coming apart at the seams by the time the war wound down, and probably was going to tear itself apart in civil war between the various political factions. IN fact, the division had a certain elegance to it that is probably better than the chaos that would have undoubtably occured had the allies not directly intervened as they did.

BTW, not sure which textbook you are refering to, but it must be fairly thorough to discuss hitler in that detail. There were enough of that sort of rabblerousers running around at the time that people like Hitler or Kapp rarely get more than (or even) a passing mention.
 
The breaking up of Germany was the suicide of the european civilisaition. If today not a red flag flies about once proud european capitels like Rom, Warsaw, Bucarest or Athen, then it is filled with marching black boots, if they call know themselves Moselytes, Lavalites or Haider-Youth. You don´t hear much laughter anymore in Europe, it lost its humor. How could it be otherwise, when all surviving european Jews sits today in Uganda or Siberia.
 

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I recently read from a history textbook about the Treaty of Versailles and the harsh conditions it imposed upon Germany. In addition to forcing the dissolution of the German Empire into the sovereign nations of Prussia, Bavaria, Hanover, and Rhineland (demilitarized at the border), Kaiser Wilhelm II was forced to abdicate, the German-ruled parts of Africa were divided up between the French, British and Belgians, and none of the newly created countries could merge with Austria (which lost its own empire).

The Prussians offered the crown to German Crown Prince Wilhelm, and he was crowned King Wilhelm III. Wilhelm reigned as a constitutional monarch with limited powers while the junkers dominated the government. Paul von Hindenburg was elected Chancellor in 1920 and held the job until his retirement in 1932. Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop succeeded Hindenburg as Chancellor.

In Bavaria, Adolf Hitler attempted to overthrow the democratically elected government in November 1923. The abortive putsch resulted in about 20 deaths, mostly of Bavarian soldiers. Seeing what a troublemaker Hitler was, the Bavarians deported him back to Austria after serving two years in jail. He was lucky. His colleagues, Ernst Rohm, Hermann Goering and Erich Ludendorff, were not and they were hung by Christmas. The ban on the Nazis from political activity remains to this very day.

Then, there was the Hanoverian Civil War which the Communists won in 1934. France and Britain were reluctant to intervene in Hanover. But when Rosa Luxemberg became President, she offered the Vice Presidency to Sudeten Communist Leader Klement Gottwald if agreed to an anschluss of the Sudetenland to Hanover.

But her belligerency towards Prussia was the last straw. An attempted Marxist revolt in Danzig started the war in 1936. It was no contest. The Prussians had the superior military thanks to Erwin Rommel. After six months of war, Luxemberg was captured, tried as a war criminal and hung in the public square. Former Defense Minister Karl Doenitz became President of post-Communist Hanover. Rommel would become Chancellor of Prussia and retire in 1958.

What became of Hitler? Back in Austria, he wrote a book of his experiences as a prisoner titled My Struggle (Mein Kampf). The book sold only a few thousand copies and proved to be a piece of trash. Hitler turned to the bottle and finally snapped after the death of his niece Geli Raubal. He committed suicide by swallowing cyanide pills.

What if France and Britain decided not to break up Germany? If Woodrow Wilson survived his heart attack in 1916, would he have convinced the Allies not to punish Germany that harshly?

Wilson's successor, President Thomas Marshall was reluctant to take a leading role in the post-war negotiations. The United States was weary of war and wanted to stay out of European affairs. Nevertheless, the Senate approved the Treaty of Versailles.


OOC: Wow, there are just so many problems with this scenario. First, Rommel was Swabian and would have been in Bavaria, not Prussia. Why would Ludendorff, a Prussia, be concerned with Bavarian party politics and not his own "nation's"? How would the Entente enforce this without the Americans? What are they going to do without German soldiers in Russia in the immediate aftermath of the war? They held the situation together and prevented the Soviets from seizing a lot of territory that later became the Baltic states. How are the allies going to deal with the massive amounts of resistance movements, including organized guerilla warfare that will make Iraq look tame?

Basically the only way to get a remote scenario like this the US has to be involved conquering Germany in 1919 and the subsequent occupation. After the large number of casualities they would be taking, they ARE getting a say, probably the most important one in the future of Germany. The French will be a basket case, as their army was litterally coming apart at the seams OTL at the armistace, and they probably will implode if they have to conquer Germany. The British are going to lose a lot of people too.

Though Germany is going to bog down in revolution, there has to be a reason for the continued resistance. If it is response to Versailles, much of the worst is over and the Americans are not going to be willing to join in on the fun of conquering Germany-they expressly said they would not help the Allies forcibly destroy Germany at the whim of the French. Not only that, but how are you going to be the British and French soldiers back into the trenches? Sure some will want to fight, but now you are telling all the rest that they have to fight and conquer Germany and then occupy the whole thing. The French lost over 10% of their male population 14-64, their economy will implode if the remaining members of their prime workers are now going to be permenantly tied down in occupation and being hunted by German die-hards.
 
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