DBWI What do you think of Generalissimo MacArthur?

[Saramello]

If the groups that he had use those tactics on can existed nowadays they be classified as domestic terrorists. After all the KKK was very much into murdering those who disagreed with them their attempt on the Supreme Court however is what convince MacArthur that those tactics were necessary. Compare it to the protests in response and how they were dispersed. They were dispersed with police lines and teargas no physical violence with used against the protesters in that case. Not excusing him just putting into perspective.

Many of those protestors weren't protesting for the KKK, they were protesting against the unconstitutionality of declaring a domestic group terrorists. The KKK were convenient scapegoats to allow the government to normalize declaring dissidents enemies of the state and dealt with as such. You sound just like my grandfather. When George Wallace was shot with rubber bullets during that protest, my grandfather celebrated. He wasn't celebrating when Henry Wallace was arrested for "sedition" under the same pretense two years later with less evidence than the Dreyfus affair.

There’s a major difference between using a nuke on geography and using it for the “maintenance a good order“.

Calling the China Bombings a "nuke on geography" is like calling the Nazi genocide of Eastern Europe "a carbon-dioxide reduction campaign."

He really did expand the Navy like Teddy did. He also kept the Navy building Battleships and change the mission for them sure they were dedicated AAA and NGFS platforms. The reconfigured Iowa’s and Montana’s were very useful in Korea and Vietnam. He also ensured the army kept the CAS mission.

I never said he wasn't a skilled general. While his war expertise was unmatched, it was at the expense, and sometimes directly contradicted, the most basic practices of diplomatic and foreign policy. Others have already mentioned his blunders into two more World Wars and managing to drive Canada and Newfoundland fully back into British arms.

he also fixed the economic slump that Truman created

That's like saying FDR fixed the slump Hoover created. For all his gaffs, Truman was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The disorganized chaos of the New Deal was bound to bear some crazy fruit, and it's not Truman's fault he had to reap the fruit FDR had planted.

and never listened to the panatomic lunatics. I.e. that nukes were the end of all conventional war.

Ah yes, because war is still conventional so long as it doesn't end in total obliteration of both sides? You're argument's like saying the machine gun didn't end conventional war in Europe AFTER World War 1 had more casualties than any conflict in history to that point. Civilian casualties from tactical nukes in the WW3 were higher than that of the first two World Wars COMBINED. You can change the definition of conventional war all you like, but 20 million civilian deaths is always going to be more than 2 million , and I'd argue only one of those is "conventional."

 

[Saramello]

Common-wealth shitposters really need to stop posting.

yours,
Sam R.

I was born here, my father was born here, and his father was born here. I wouldn't have "unpatriotically" done a year of public school in the UK if McArthur hadn't butchered the U.S. Public School system.

What about the cannibalism scandal?

Ugh god. I thought we were here to discuss his legacy. McArthur's legacy has enough real dirt to for us to be thinking up fake ones. Just because he went to Papua New Guinea and took a picture eating a ceremonial meal with a chief of a tribe that practiced cannibalism doesn't mean that dinner was human flesh. He's not the first outsider to eat with them, and there was a full team of Australian chefs which had been making meals for diplomats for decades before he showed up.

 

[Reyne]

People can cry about MacArthur all they want, act all mighty and sneer and critize a man who was a million times grander than each of them, but if today America rules the world it is because of him. The Europeans, from Lisbon to Vladivostok bow before American Supremacy, Eastern Asia, China and Korea and Japan the Phillipines and Vietnam all follow our lead and are our greatest allies, Africa is developing under our tutelage and the myriad of shitty dictators in South America are dead because of him.

For all that people feel about MacArthur, it is because of him that we are here today.

In two years our first Moon and Mars colonies will be built and our spaceships will soon reach Jupiter's moons.

It is because of MacArthur endless ambitions that America todays leads humanity in manifesting its destiny over our Solar system. There is no greater achievement than that.

 

[Ijon Tichy]

People can cry about MacArthur all they want, act all mighty and sneer and critize a man who was a million times grander than each of them, but if today America rules the world it is because of him. The Europeans, from Lisbon to Vladivostok bow before American Supremacy, Eastern Asia, China and Korea and Japan the Phillipines and Vietnam all follow our lead and are our greatest allies, Africa is developing under our tutelage and the myriad of shitty dictators in South America are dead because of him.

For all that people feel about MacArthur, it is because of him that we are here today.

In two years our first Moon and Mars colonies will be built and our spaceships will soon reach Jupiter's moons.

It is because of MacArthur endless ambitions that America todays leads humanity in manifesting its destiny over our Solar system. There is no greater achievement than that.

I'd heard about MacArthur's notorious gutting of the school system, but I hadn't realised it had reached the point where these kids today confused fan-fiction alt-history with what really happened.

 

[Reyne]

I'd heard about MacArthur's notorious gutting of the school system, but I hadn't realised it had reached the point where these kids today confused fan-fiction alt-history with what really happened.

Call it what you want. MacArthur's presidency saw the greatest jump in technology ever seen in human history ever. Just the technologies discovered during world war 2, 3 and 4 make the rest of our planet's scientific history bland. Keep crying in your hovel, commie, while I watch our space forces land on Mars.

 

[Mr. Magi]

I'd heard about MacArthur's notorious gutting of the school system, but I hadn't realised it had reached the point where these kids today confused fan-fiction alt-history with what really happened.

To be fair, I think he's just one of those guys.

And yes, MacArther partially gutted the school system entirely because he thought that colleges were... well, he thought that if everyone had a college degree, then the degree would be worthless. He made them more unreachable and replaced them with work programs and votechs, which is why besides the Ivy Leagues, you usually just see Technical Schools. He was decent at nation building and a solid general, not much the educator type.

Again like the man himself, it had good and bad results. One result is brain drain, but the other is that our few homegrown Dr.'s are among the better in the field since requirements were so high. It also guaranteed that we lack shortages of trained craftsmen and vocational studies like some other nations at the moment are feeling.

 

[Salvare7097]

Many of those protestors weren't protesting for the KKK, they were protesting against the unconstitutionality of declaring a domestic group terrorists. The KKK were convenient scapegoats to allow the government to normalize declaring dissidents enemies of the state and dealt with as such. You sound just like my grandfather. When George Wallace was shot with rubber bullets during that protest, my grandfather celebrated. He wasn't celebrating when Henry Wallace was arrested for "sedition" under the same pretense two years later with less evidence than the Dreyfus affair.

*Grown* not this conspiracy theory again Henry Wallace was never arrested. Don’t listen to James Anderson history of democracy which was the Debunked four years after it was published. Guy later said on record that America was blight, hardly a reliable source. Wasn’t he also passed over for promotion to Lieutenant Colonel In WWII and then later court-martialed for article 99 cowardice by MacArthur?

Calling the China Bombings a "nuke on geography" is like calling the Nazi genocide of Eastern Europe "a carbon-dioxide reduction campaign."

again Anderson is not a reliable source guy had a grudge against MacArthur.

That's like saying FDR fixed the slump Hoover created. For all his gaffs, Truman was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The disorganized chaos of the New Deal was bound to bear some crazy fruit, and it's not Truman's fault he had to reap the fruit FDR had planted.

FDR had four terms in office do you think that if his policies would have had problems that manifested earlier. If you don’t like the fact that the new deal was successful.

Ah yes, because war is still conventional so long as it doesn't end in total obliteration of both sides? You're argument's like saying the machine gun didn't end conventional war in Europe AFTER World War 1 had more casualties than any conflict in history to that point. Civilian casualties from tactical nukes in the WW3 were higher than that of the first two World Wars COMBINED. You can change the definition of conventional war all you like, but 20 million civilian deaths is always going to be more than 2 million , and I'd argue only one of those is "conventional."

again Anderson is not a reliable source. Guy had a personal vendetta. I will admit that civilian casualties were higher. That is because the commontrun ignored the Geneva conventions. Example which would be general order 5583 which ordered that medics be targeted first. That is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.

OOC: i’m enjoying this thank you OP and Saramello.

 

[Saramello]

To be fair, I think he's just one of those guys.

And yes, MacArther partially gutted the school system entirely because he thought that colleges were... well, he thought that if everyone had a college degree, then the degree would be worthless. He made them more unreachable and replaced them with work programs and votechs, which is why besides the Ivy Leagues, you usually just see Technical Schools. He was decent at nation building and a solid general, not much the educator type.

Again like the man himself, it had good and bad results. One result is brain drain, but the other is that our few homegrown Dr.'s are among the better in the field since requirements were so high. It also guaranteed that we lack shortages of trained craftsmen and vocational studies like some other nations at the moment are feeling.

Well, we didn't have any shortages... until COVID hit. At least before McArthur healthcare, while over bloated, was available so long as you had insurance, cash, or credit. Now tens of thousands of our trained craftsmen died in overcrowded hospital hallways or in their own homes because of our doctor shortage. As the rest of the world has proven it's better to have ten thousand decent doctors than five hundred excellent ones. As a man who lived through the Spanish Flu himself, McArthur showed remarkably little foresight of what would happen when there's not enough doctors to alleviate a pandemic.

And thanks to those fewer universities, what was it, a third of all higher education workers in the U.S. are here from work VISAs from other parts of the world? Who would have guessed that NDAs don't stop the numerous different nationals we were forced to import for our Energy and Weapons Programs from leaking the info all over the damn world. That combined with McArthur's utter distrust of our official allies meant that Red China got it's hands on the nuke before the damn Brits did.

I'll yield there was some good, and some bad. But lunatics are comparing the man to the Founding Fathers. He was a strongman with good PR, and jackasses today refuse to admit that fact while unironically calling him Generalissimo.

 

[Saramello]

People can cry about MacArthur all they want, act all mighty and sneer and critize a man who was a million times grander than each of them, but if today America rules the world it is because of him. The Europeans, from Lisbon to Vladivostok bow before American Supremacy, Eastern Asia, China and Korea and Japan the Phillipines and Vietnam all follow our lead and are our greatest allies, Africa is developing under our tutelage and the myriad of shitty dictators in South America are dead because of him.

Ah yes, he overthrew the shitty dictators of South America and replaced them with fully functioning democracies with constitutions that have been temporarily suspended while their "Presidents" helped to crack down on "communist remnants" such as farmers, peaceful protestors, and hospital employees.

For all that people feel about MacArthur, it is because of him that we are here today.

In two years our first Moon and Mars colonies will be built and our spaceships will soon reach Jupiter's moons.

It is because of MacArthur endless ambitions that America todays leads humanity in manifesting its destiny over our Solar system. There is no greater achievement than that.

Ah yes, the vast unclaimed tracts of the solar system. Just like how Algeria has dominion over the Sahara and Russia over Sibera. So much space for the taking, but so little in it to take. Just like Algerian and Russian villages in their vast space, these planets and colonies have little and produce little. We've invested, what? 10 Trillion Dollars in the Space Program, for what return? We can't grow crops on any other planet. Transporting twenty billion of those crazy "Martian diamonds" would cost about 50 billion. I'm not advocating for disbanding NASA, but "colonizing" the solar system was done for the same reason Europeans colonized Africa a century and a half ago, to make their name bigger on a map. Great, we reached Jupiter, which is valuable to humanity because _____(you fill in the blank). Same with every other planet past Mars (which isn't exactly a fertile paradise). And unless we dig up Ronald Reagan or another Star Trek actor and ask how they subverted lightspeed, we're not likely to go anywhere else.

You're right. We wouldn't have such incredible space travel today without MacArthur's pet passion. Because it's useless otherwise. Hitler was insane, but it would be possible to grow crops around the Urals. It's easier than doing it on Mars. There is no "living space" in space.

And, frankly, prestige doesn't fix our problems here on earth. Maybe that forty-seven million dollar water purifier meant for the Jamestown colony would be better served in Flint Michigan.

 

[Saramello]

*Grown* not this conspiracy theory again Henry Wallace was never arrested. Don’t listen to James Anderson history of democracy which was the Debunked four years after it was published. Guy later said on record that America was blight, hardly a reliable source. Wasn’t he also passed over for promotion to Lieutenant Colonel In WWII and then later court-martialed for article 99 cowardice by MacArthur?

Fine, fine. I guess I needed to look beyond one source. While fired, investigated, and taken in for questioning he was never technically arrested.

again Anderson is not a reliable source guy had a grudge against MacArthur.

What does this have to do with Anderson? I'm using your own words here.

FDR had four terms in office do you think that if his policies would have had problems that manifested earlier. If you don’t like the fact that the new deal was successful.

The New Deal had good benefits, don't get me wrong. The parts that survived McArthur are the foundation for many great programs today in the U.S. But it had no central planning, and was patchwork Frankenstein the various whims of FDR. It takes time for things to happen in politics and economics. Just look at how long it took the Depression to make its rounds in different countries.

again Anderson is not a reliable source. Guy had a personal vendetta. I will admit that civilian casualties were higher. That is because the commontrun ignored the Geneva conventions. Example which would be general order 5583 which ordered that medics be targeted first. That is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention.

Again this isn't just Anderson. We used tactical nukes too. That isn't fact or an opinion. . Maybe we didn't target medics in the fields, but I'm pretty sure our tactical nukes on cities didn't just kill soldiers. Even the US' own released records on it show that 50%+ of all casualties from city bombings (Vladivostok the key example) are civilian casualties.

OOC: i’m enjoying this thank you OP and Saramello.

OOC: This is a load of fun. Hope you don't mind my confrontational attitude. I'm a sucker for debates. Thank you OP and [REDACTED]

 

[Mr. Magi]

Well, we didn't have any shortages... until COVID hit. At least before McArthur healthcare, while over bloated, was available so long as you had insurance, cash, or credit. Now tens of thousands of our trained craftsmen died in overcrowded hospital hallways or in their own homes because of our doctor shortage. As the rest of the world has proven it's better to have ten thousand decent doctors than five hundred excellent ones. As a man who lived through the Spanish Flu himself, McArthur showed remarkably little foresight of what would happen when there's not enough doctors to alleviate a pandemic.

And thanks to those fewer universities, what was it, a third of all higher education workers in the U.S. are here from work VISAs from other parts of the world? Who would have guessed that NDAs don't stop the numerous different nationals we were forced to import for our Energy and Weapons Programs from leaking the info all over the damn world. That combined with McArthur's utter distrust of our official allies meant that Red China got it's hands on the nuke before the damn Brits did.

I'll yield there was some good, and some bad. But lunatics are comparing the man to the Founding Fathers. He was a strongman with good PR, and jackasses today refuse to admit that fact while unironically calling him Generalissimo.

You say that, but the college bubble hitting several other nations would like to differ. Also there's shortages in the same countries for essential work that is often seen as "beneath" them. Admittedly the death tolls there are a lot lower, but eh, the economy in general looks like it's going down the toilet so we're living in "interesting times" as it is.

Also I don't get where you got the nuke idea from. The people's republic died in nuclear flames in the 1950s, and the Soviets had the bomb from before that point under Truman, even if they only had a few of them. The later KMT we fought in the 4th World War was anything but marxist in scope and I'm actually kind of offended you conflate the two, even if both remained dictatorships. I know Mao is kind of the new Trotsky in communist circles; immortalized in his martyrdom in 1954, but he had a different design policy than Chiang and his successors.

I will however grant you that comparing MacArthur to the Founding Fathers is nuts. He's more like an Andrew Jackson, a Woodrow Wilson, and a Franklin Roosevelt; a man capable of great things. Wonderful or terrible yes, but still great things.

 

[Saramello]

Also I don't get where you got the nuke idea from. The people's republic died in nuclear flames in the 1950s, and the Soviets had the bomb from before that point under Truman, even if they only had a few of them. The later KMT we fought in the 4th World War was anything but marxist in scope and I'm actually kind of offended you conflate the two, even if both remained dictatorships. I know Mao is kind of the new Trotsky in communist circles; immortalized in his martyrdom in 1954, but he had a different design policy than Chiang and his successors.

Yeah, my bad. The point still stands that a lot of nations we weren't friendly with got the nuke before our allies because of importing scientists, but in this case I'm wrong. I'll admit I have a chip on my shoulder against Chiang. The man was willing to burn China to the ground so the ashes would be free of communists. I guess I conflate him with the Soviets because their Great Purges killed millions, that Chiang was a dick. Our thanks for giving him billions of supplies during the Sino-Japanese war and restoring him the nation HE lost in the 1950s was to nationalize American industries in Taiwan and elsewhere in China and use the veto power WE gave him to go against America.

 

[Ijon Tichy]

Call it what you want. MacArthur's presidency saw the greatest jump in technology ever seen in human history ever. Just the technologies discovered during world war 2, 3 and 4 make the rest of our planet's scientific history bland. Keep crying in your hovel, commie, while I watch our space forces land on Mars.

OOC: Nice one, well played. 👍